Speaker 1 (00:00:17):
Welcome to the first ever art, the raw, my name’s Ann Kelly. I’m your host. And today we have with us, my friend MI Michael Koff. Hello. Hey, so I’m in my backyard in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Where are you?
Speaker 2 (00:00:35):
Michael? I’m in my office in Los Angeles, California.
Speaker 1 (00:00:40):
Well, thanks for today. Michael is a fine art photographer and he’s also the editor in chief of analog forever magazine and the FA the founding editor of catalyst interviews. And you also recently picked up another project. Is that
Speaker 2 (00:01:00):
Right? I did. I did it, um, like the fool. I am, I put more on my plate when I didn’t really have the time to do it. So, um, I found the time and I’m a contributing editor, uh, at one 12, uh, which is one 12 publishing is the parent company of fusion magazine, which a lot of people are familiar with, uh, started by blue Mitchell. Um, so I’m, I started a regular semi-regular, uh, online column called traverse and it deals with, um, I’m featuring photographers outside of the us borders. It’s no one in the us is eligible to be in this column. So, um, I just, just wanted to see what other people in other countries are doing and how they’re pursuing their work. So very cool. I added that to the repertoire.
Speaker 1 (00:01:56):
Well, I figured, you know, because you didn’t have anything else to do. Um, you, uh, wanted to be on this show as well. I did.
Speaker 2 (00:02:06):
I did. Yeah. Oh yeah. My brain screen. No, no, don’t do it. And then I said, yeah, sure. It can anything. Um, no, I definitely wanted to do
Speaker 1 (00:02:15):
It so well, well, thank you. Thank you for that. Um, really appreciate it. Um, so yes, it’s the first show where excited about this overall. Um, there’s gonna be lots of different, um, creative people invited to be part of this show and, um, it’s gonna be fluid and we’re just gonna kinda kinda see where it goes. Pretty
Speaker 2 (00:02:40):
Exciting. Excellent. Excellent. And what’s it called?
Speaker 1 (00:02:44):
So the, the, um, working title of the show is art and the raw. And I, I spent the last probably two months or so playing with different titles of what the show could be called. And, um, I, I landed on art and the raw, uh, a just because I, I wanna talk about art and creative things, but I also want it to be rather raw origin of it is, um, the college I went to had these, um, I think we did it twice a year. We had these art show, um, that we called art and the raw, and kind of the idea was you could show works that weren’t finished. People might be making the work in the middle of the show. There might be people skateboarding through the middle of the art show <laugh> it was, it was really IM to, and it could just be whatever it wanted to be. So obviously, so that was something we always looked forward to. And, um, obviously this is not that, but I kind of wanted, wanted it to have kind of the same spirit mm-hmm <affirmative> of that.
Speaker 2 (00:03:55):
Excellent. Keep it organic. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (00:03:57):
Yeah. Relax. Exactly. You’re hanging out in the studio, I’m hanging out in the yard. We both have dogs that might potentially bark, but it’s all get, I watched another interview with you pretty recently, where I, um, learned some things I didn’t necessarily know about. And, um, your dad bought a camera when you were seven. Is
Speaker 2 (00:04:26):
That right? That’s right. Yeah. Polaroid SX 70 camera, and
Speaker 1 (00:04:30):
Then you’d stole it from him.
Speaker 2 (00:04:32):
And then I basically, yeah. <laugh> yeah, there were plenty of times it was like my camera or, or it was why is there no more films left? And that, that was right. That was a general thing. Cause it wasn’t cheap. I mean, it, it was never been cheap, but, um, yeah, I, I used up all of the film all of the time and if I was gonna get in trouble for something early on, that was, that was one of the things at the top of the list. So, um, but, uh, but I made a life for myself out of it, so I think he’s okay with it or he was, yeah. And I mean, it was more of a hobby since, since I was seven until all the way through, uh, through high school. But then that was the point where I realized that I have no other, I have no other, uh, focus in life. So, um, I think photography’s gonna be it, cuz I really love doing this. So let’s go for it. Let’s make that happen cause it’s either that or prison. So, um, so far it’s worked out well,
Speaker 1 (00:05:40):
I kind of felt that that same way in that. Um, so my mom was into photography and so that was kind of my, my link as well. And I started taking classes with her at this, um, uh, community college when I was in middle school and started taking the photo classes, um, in high school. But around the time I was graduating from high school, you know, when everybody was trying to figure out, oh, what, what they were gonna do next. I mean, there, there really wasn’t anything else that was speaking to me. So I, I wasn’t really, I was an art kid, um, you know, art and it’s, it’s a powerful thing like that. Cause you know, maybe, maybe you would’ve gone to, maybe we’d both be in prison. We don’t know <laugh>
Speaker 2 (00:06:31):
Yeah, yeah. That’s true. I mean, um, but yeah, you’re right. And it’s funny me that, um, we are kind of seeing those connections now because like you said, when we first met, uh, during, uh, review Santa Fe yeah. Review Santa Fe. Um, I think that we kind of had some kind of, you know, similar work that we gravitated to, you know, I know that you were kind of like referring people to me and I was mentioning people to you and the fact that, um, both of our last names start with K meant that like our tables kind were kind of next to each other anyway. So it was really easy to kind of like keep that communication going and share the share that work and their, those people’s ideas and, and processes. Um, and I think that it kind of worked out and I think that that like, like what happens with a lot of artists, like the, uh, the, that shared love of, uh, art photography or anything else, um, that kind of binds people together and you build up your community through that. And by, by doing that and sitting next to each other during that time, I, I think, you know, we became part of each other’s community and that was mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, obviously a key aspect to, to how we both work and what brought me to do this with you today as well. So it seems perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:07:52):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and you were looking for film based work specifically. So
Speaker 2 (00:07:56):
For, for that, for the most part, but I mean the other, the other things that I do both with catalyst and for traverse, um, they’re not, they are not upon being analog at all. Um, but I think the chance of me sharing something that’s analog, analog based is, is much higher if it, if it’s that way because, uh, at analog forever, we highlight a lot of work and we do a lot of calls for submission and, um, whereas catalyst and traverse are pretty, they’re less frequent. So, um, um, and I think being associated with a magazine, both a print in an online magazine, I think that just kind of carries more weight than something that is, uh, that happens less often and only happens online. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so I, I think like usually when people, if I don’t say anything, people just kind of introduce me as editor in chief of forever magazine, um, even before being a photographer myself now <laugh>. Yeah. And so it’s kind of overtaken that a little bit in some, at least in some people’s minds, which is fine. I mean, I, I mean, I, I enjoy it all. So
Speaker 1 (00:09:12):
Do you feel like you identify more as a photo than, than anything else or at this point, is it all kind of everything?
Speaker 2 (00:09:20):
Uh, I do. I mean, it is everything, but I still this a photographer. I mean, that’s what I’ve been doing my entire life. And I mean, like I said, like, like with you, you, in high school, you just kind of, you know, the, the, and you realize is that this is my life now. And, um, I think I’ve chosen, I’m gonna go for it. And then I’ve had, um, some really good career moves and going into sharing other people’s work. And like, you know, we often say curation, but, and that’s kind of a loaded because people who are like really hardcore curators and do, you know, amazing things with that, conceptually, um, I’m more of just somebody who kind of selects work and shares it, um, rather than curates it, but that’s still, you know, it’s a part of the puzzle and, um, one that I’m happy to embrace, but I do still identify predominantly as a photographer because I kind of look at everything with the eyes of a photographer when I’m looking at other people’s work.
Speaker 2 (00:10:27):
And even when I’m just, you know, walking down the street, I’m always like, oh, I, you know, if I don’t have me for some reason, which is rare, um, I am, I’m always thinking like, I need to get a picture of that or this better. If I did this, I’m always looking to improve something as well. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, with the camera, um, or kind of put my own spin on it. So, you know, which is just my, my process, you know, and it’s not, and I don’t mean that by being process based like, but other digital or analog or you do wet plate or anything like that, but just your artistic or your creative process. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and that’s what catalyst is too. I mean, that’s an examination of the creative process. Um, and that’s all done through my eyes as a photographer.
Speaker 1 (00:11:14):
Right. So, um, catalyst is all interviews and that’s something you started and how many years ago was that just right?
Speaker 2 (00:11:24):
Literally just crap, just cross the two year mark. Um, I started it on a specifically August 8th, 2018. So I just celebrated my, uh, uh, two year anniversary and ran the 52nd, um, interview on. Yeah know, so, and interestingly, this in talk that I had done before, um, analog forever was literally launched, um, almost exactly one month later. So wow. All over the, that kind of preparation and work that you need to do ahead of time from planning to doing the actual interviews, to setting up the side and social media and all of the, all of the bells and whistles and crap to kind of go with it now, um, like that three months before then was kind of a nightmare, um, as much as I do now, like I think about that time and if it wasn’t for coffee, uh, it wouldn’t have happened. I literally like was just running on fumes and coffee the entire time, um, until both of those things were launched. And then I kind of, I was able to, you know, wait a beat and take a breath and, and catch up. And since then, you know, I’ve had my struggles and time manages an issue. Um, I think that, uh, I’ve kind of, I’ve kind of figured it out a little bit now, so there’s kind of a flow to it and I don’t feel as stressed about it all as much as I, I did in the very beginning, but it is still new. I mean, it’s only, they’re only both been around a couple years, so
Speaker 1 (00:13:09):
Yeah. Long to go, that’s that’s a lot to take on, so <laugh>, but you kind of can’t help it. Right. I mean, that’s kind of where all this comes from to a certain extent or,
Speaker 2 (00:13:20):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I that’s, it’s kind of cliche to say that, but it’s the, the, you know, the, the passion for what we do, um, just it’s like just kind of takes over your life and, um, whether it’s, uh, making photographs for myself, um, making them for a client like, cuz I, cuz I do still shoot commercially a little bit as well. Um, not as much as I used to, but um, it still happens. So that’s another aspect to it. Um, and then sh sharing the work of others and interviewing people and doing all of the things that, you know, like what you do. I mean, anybody wants to be represented by a, a well known successful gallery and you know, you sit at the helm of that and uh, you know, people have people have questions and they wanna be involved, um, and you want them to be involved. So,
Speaker 1 (00:14:18):
Um, yeah, people have questions and, and I’ve come to realize, I love stories. Like I, I started doing interviews for, for the blog years ago and that’s something that’s really been one of the more rewarding parts of what I do for my day job is, is, is those interviews. And I just love not only doing the interviews, but sharing the stories with other people that come in. And so I think this is kind of partially what this is that is maybe born out of a little bit, um, you know, something positive coming out of the, the weird times we’re in right now. Whereas, um, not that I don’t interact with people anymore, but it’s not as many people and, um, kind of stripping everything back and thinking, okay, what is important or, or what do I really, why, what am I really into? And, and a lot of it is, is, um, just communicating with different people and hearing all of these stories and, and being able to share beyond, okay, this is this guy CB, and this is his artist statement. Like mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I like the story of you were driving down the, to take the picture and then there was a, a lightning strike and, you know, this happened in that. I mean, I just find, um, sharing that kind of information. Not that the other information isn’t interesting, but, um, I think that’s what really kind of excites me. Yeah. So, um, I, I think kind of having less of that kind of triggered me to wanna do, um, the show. So here we are, we’re we’re doing yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:16:02):
<laugh> and, and it’s funny because like, you know, like you said, you’ve been doing interviews for a long time and I’ve been doing them for probably a shorter amount of time. Although I did, although I did start doing them before analog forever and catalyst, I was, I was doing them for a magazine that’s no longer around anymore called blur. Um, in fact that’s what got me into doing ’em in the first place. So it’s funny that you, you done your share of interviewing and I’ve done mine. So, um, this conversation that we have is literally like, we’re kind of interviewing you one the way. Yeah. And as, as interested in, as you are in like, what other people are doing, I’m as interested in you doing this and, um, both the work you do at FA I, and then now this new venture. Um, and I’m just, you know, like you mentioned where the name came from and, um, the fact that you’re trying to keep it organic and it’s, we’re doing this live, but we’re obviously just recording it.
Speaker 2 (00:17:04):
So I think that that kind of takes a little bit of the pressure off, um, and you kind of fly by the seat of your pants a little bit. Um, but, um, um, like I wonder, are you also going to, in addition to kind of having conversations, would you also do things like, um, like a dark room or a studio tour or something like that with other people? Or would you, would you include other, you, you plan on including other types of art and I mean, it seems like you have a lot of ways to go with what you’re doing here.
Speaker 1 (00:17:36):
Yeah. Um, a studio tour. I hadn’t thought of that specifically, but I’m kind of, um, I, I think that could be a lot of fun and, um, I mean, we’re kind of doing it through zoom now just because of the current times, but at the same time, it also makes it more accessible just in terms of, of filming it. And I can’t necessarily just fly out to LA today to talk to you even in the normal world. Right. Um, when, I mean, I hope to come visit LA sooner than later, but, um, it, it, it just makes a lot of people more accessible and I’ve found myself having a lot of conversations with people recently on zoom that probably wouldn’t happened otherwise. So, right. That’s kind of a positive of thing. And when I first started looking at, um, doing this, I was thinking specifically visual arts.
Speaker 1 (00:18:37):
I didn’t wanna just focus it on photography because I love all different types of art. And I’ve got lots of friends who are in all different artistic mediums, but I even started thinking the other day. Um, I think I’d also like to have a few musicians on the show. Oh, I really love music. Um, I grew up with my dad jamming in the basement all the time. So that’s, um, I’m not a musician, that’s not something I’m skilled at, but, but I love it. So, um, I’m gonna keep it kind of open. And, um, I don’t know if I said this already, but I thought it would be fun to have shows where, you know, maybe we’ve got a, a musician and a, a stone sculptor. Um, uh, so if anybody out there listening eventually has any ideas, um, for different shows, let me know. I’m definitely open to it.
Speaker 2 (00:19:35):
So that’s a great idea. I mean, the idea of, uh, people in who are, who work in the arts, but in, in, in entirely different mediums, um, to kind of find that common thread that joins them together, uh, where the medium might be different. But the, but the, the goal is probably the same, uh, in terms of, I dunno, whether it’s not necessarily in a financial way, but in terms of satisfying your own need to create. So I think that have that to a certain degree, um, and, um, something that they can all they’ll be able, they’ll be able to talk about that and you’ll be able to kind of moderate it and, and, you know, be in the thick of it with them. I think that’s really interesting way to go.
Speaker 1 (00:20:23):
Why are we all driven what we’re driven to do? So, you know, a human experience yeah. Thing. Yeah. Um, so
Speaker 2 (00:20:34):
Actually you already have a, do you already have a, uh, a, do you have a lineup of people that you’re already kind of, um, planning on or
Speaker 1 (00:20:45):
I, I do. Can I not ask that? I, no, no, no, no, that’s cool. Um, I haven’t actually written it down, but it’s in my head and I have a pretty good memory, so, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:20:56):
I mean, does there, and, well, actually the other question, I have so many questions for you, Anne. Um, that works. Um, how often do, do you think you’ll do this? Is it just, is it time permitting you, can you, and try to keep it as like a regular schedule?
Speaker 1 (00:21:10):
I, I feel like I should. I feel like I wanna keep it as a regular schedule just in terms of, um, I think that’s just the best way to keep the momentum going.
Speaker 2 (00:21:20):
Right. I would agree.
Speaker 1 (00:21:22):
So, um, yes, when, when everybody’s watching this, it will be in the past, but not that far into the past, but I, I kinda wanna prerecord X number of episodes and then before I actually post anything. So mm-hmm, <affirmative>, um, we, we shall see, but I feel like weekly is good and, and maybe there might be some different types of content. I mean, I, honestly, my original fear in doing this at all was can I keep up with it? Right. Um, and I’m sure you you’ve probably felt that way when you every day. Yeah. <laugh> so I, I finally concluded the worst possible scenario is I have some interesting conversations with some interesting people and, um, and I can’t keep up with it and then just do it for a short period of time. But I mean, I’d like to keep doing it. So
Speaker 2 (00:22:17):
We’ll just, yeah. I mean, essentially it’s like a new form of blogging. Uh, you know, obviously I think probably the most successful ones are the ones that post something every single day, um, because people are constantly going there and, and uh, you know, then they can advertise and they can monetize the blog to a certain degree and kind of keep that part of it going. Um, but the more you, the more you post, the more, the, the more the conversation continues and, and expands. So I I’m actually, I was surprised that you said you might wanna do it, um, once a week. To me, that sounds like a lot. Um, it, it
Speaker 1 (00:22:56):
Seems a lot to me too, but, um, yeah, we’ll see.
Speaker 2 (00:23:00):
<laugh> but like you say, like, you love it, you love doing this sort of thing as well. So, um, you know, having, uh, I, I think as from the artist perspective that conversation with somebody like you is really because, you know, obviously again, it can access as a community, but I think people have especially photographers. Um, they have questions in terms of, um, how gallery directors think, um, what they react most positively towards, um, is a way of kind of figuring out like, you know, everybody that talks to you is probably in the back of their mind thinking, oh, I wonder if my work would be good enough for, for Ann and could I be in the gallery? And, um, I know that that’s happened to me, that you can tell sometimes that people start talking to you, you went away that like, oh, they just wanna know <laugh> yeah. They just wanna know and be in the magazine, but that’s okay. Because, um, you know, I, I see that as a good thing, but, uh, you know, it’s because you’re kind of to a certain degree, like a gatekeeper and, but you have a lot of useful information and, uh, and your views on how, um, how photographs are shared and disseminated. Um, they’re very valuable to people. So, um, I think watching this for a certain degree, well, as doing them with somebody like you, is, is a highly valuable endeavor.
Speaker 1 (00:24:30):
Well, I mean, I feel like all that’s, you know, very, very mysterious waters. So I came from a fine art photography background. And when I started working at the gallery, which was actually, um, about 14 years ago last week, I think, um, I kind of felt like the spy coming in of like, oh, you know, oh, I’ve got this eye on the inside and, and this is how it works. And, and, um, I honestly didn’t plan on making a career out of it. And, and quite frankly, I mean, I don’t know how, how you felt about this when you got into photography at kind of a young age. Um, I mean, I think that’s kind of one of the nice things about being young is when I got into it, I didn’t necessarily think, how am I going to support myself? How am I gonna survive off of photography? I just thought, oh, I love photography. And it’s time to move forward with something that’s kind of focused. And, and I think it was maybe around the time I was graduating from college, somebody said, oh, well, what are you actually gonna do with this? And I had that kind of like, oh, um, <laugh>, I hadn’t really thought about that. I mean, I had, but not, um, as it became realer, um, how were you, I mean, did you have kind of a plan in mind with, with photography or it was just a,
Speaker 2 (00:25:56):
You know, I have to say, like, I don’t know that I’ve ever had a real concrete plan <laugh> uh, because I know, I know that when there have, at least in the short term, when I have made plan plans, they never go things, don’t go according to plan, um, because this is life and this is how it all goes. So for me having like a grand plan and an overall scheme for what I intend, um, I mean, you have goals, but in terms of building like a roadmap to get from point a, to, to point B to point C and on, um, in this type of career or any career in the arts, that that’s a really tough plan to make, because there are so many variables and your success is dependent upon a lot of things. Um, but the, but I would always, uh, and I always say, um, that perseverance is key because without that kind of aspect to your, in your motivation, um, you’re never gonna it at all.
Speaker 2 (00:27:03):
Um, but like you, when you start, like you said, you started at the gallery, you didn’t know that that was gonna be a career. It certainly worked out well for you. And when I started in photography, I didn’t, I intended for it to be a career, but I really didn’t know how it was going to go. Um, and when I re started getting into shooting and, and trying to, trying to navigate those waters, um, you know, I had more than my share of speed bumps that I hit along the way. And I had, I would say there have been, there was one really in particular moment where it hit me over the head that I was literally all of it up. Like, I, I became incredibly depressed. I felt not just unsuccessful, but I really felt like I was a failure. And I had led a lot of other people down in the, in the midst of all of that.
Speaker 2 (00:28:02):
And, um, once I sat with that for a little while, I realized that I had no, at least mentally, I literally had nowhere to go, but up, um, because I had kind of hit rock bottom at that point. It was so it, it hit me so hard and so dramatically that, um, I kind of figured I had, I had to figure a way out and that’s just what you do. And I think it’s easier when you’re younger. Um, because you feel like you’ve got, you know, everything’s open to you, you’ve got forever, really, you know, you don’t, but like, wait, if you hit, once you hit 20, you think, oh my God, I’m 20. And then you, I’m 30, you know, every, every 10 years, like you think, oh, my life is dwindling away, but you got a lot of time to do all of this sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (00:28:53):
But when you’re younger, you really got a lot of time. So you can, you can stand to screw things up along the way and then fix it. Um, and it gets harder when you’re older, but at the same time, the wisdom that you’ve accumulated along the is there, and you can fall back and, you know, weasel your way out of things. Again, if you get yourself into a tough spot, um, like now, I mean, the, the, the, with the pandemic going on and the situation, um, artists and photographers and calories, and, you know, all of those people that we care about and love everybody’s in kind of a really difficult situation right now. So we’re all kind of falling back on the wisdom that we’ve accumulated along the way to kind of figure it all out, um, and try to do something maybe new, maybe something D um, and that’s why I continue to do the things that I’m doing and why you’re probably doing what you’re doing with this endeavor. So, um,
Speaker 1 (00:29:47):
Yeah, you said some of your commercial work was kind of on hold for a little while and maybe is starting to happen a little bit
Speaker 2 (00:29:55):
Now. Yeah, yeah, it is. Um, I mean, I, I just had a conversation with a client not too long ago that was talking about, um, you know, booking a two day shoot, uh, which is great. Um, but they’re, you know, the questions are, how do we do this safely? And we basically did a zoom meeting about that, uh, uh, ahead of time. So everybody’s on the same page and nobody’s, you know, nobody’s going massless or whatever, along the way, everybody’s trying to as safe as they can what’s
Speaker 1 (00:30:28):
That I said, but at no point, have you been bored because you’ve had all of your, your side projects and personal work to,
Speaker 2 (00:30:35):
Um, no, no, not at all. Um, yeah, even during the times, you know, I spent, I went four months, almost three and a half to four months, I think, without a single day of paying work, um, or a day of UN or, uh, without any unemployment either <laugh> cause I messed that up in the early, early days. But, um, all of that, I, it was definitely not bored. I was working on all of the things that I’ve already, you know, mentioned.
Speaker 1 (00:31:07):
Yeah. You have a little more time and you go, oh, what’s important. So
Speaker 2 (00:31:12):
Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. And I knew I wasn’t gonna be making a buck, so I thought I can really kind of buckle down and, and actually for once good ahead of the game, like, you know, time management is a, is an issue in terms of doing all of the things that we do. So, um, uh, a friend of mine was talking about this the same way and he re he, he dubbed this, his, uh, Corona. So he was, he was taking, taking as many, uh, uh, of these Corona fuel as, uh, as a way to, to make it into a vacation and, and work on the things that he loved to do. Um, and for him, for him at that time, it was really spending time with his children more than
Speaker 1 (00:31:54):
Anything. So, well, it’s important. Yeah. I, I, I found this, uh, quote from you that is, uh, curiosity feeds your soul.
Speaker 2 (00:32:04):
Uh, where was that at? That just, is that
Speaker 1 (00:32:07):
Me? You said that you said that in that live interview. Oh, I did. I wrote it down. Yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 2 (00:32:13):
You can’t remember it. It wasn’t very long ago. Um, you’re right. I guess. And its true
Speaker 1 (00:32:19):
Think that’s part of
Speaker 2 (00:32:21):
Yeah. And it was really from, from the standpoint of how I create work because, um, both as a photographer and as a, I don’t know, as an editor, um, I think you have to continue to be curious and ultimately it does, it feeds your soul because you’re, you’re learning things along the way that you didn’t know about. And you know, I don’t, I can’t tell you how many times somebody has told me a story about their, their photography or the, the story behind a photograph mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and you think, oh my God, like I had no idea. You had to jump through so many hoops or do so many things or that you were in danger or, uh, so being, being, being curious is a definitely a key component to, to, to doing this. And, and again, staying the whole thing because, uh, especially if you’re not making, if you’re not making a living out of it, you have to feed yourself another way. So feeding your soul with the curiosity is gonna be one of the ways to do that.
Speaker 1 (00:33:34):
Speaker 2 (00:33:35):
If it makes sense at all, I dunno.
Speaker 1 (00:33:37):
No, no, it totally does. I mean, that’s, I mean, why, why would, um, either of us wanna interview people if we weren’t curious, right. Or, or I found that a lot of art making is, is kind of an exploratory process or a lot of images that I like make me ask questions. So I think there’s, there’s something to that and that’s what, what keeps life makes life interesting and keeps you young and I don’t know that’s that’s my anyways. So that said, I noticed there’s some flat files behind you. I’m curious. What’s in there.
Speaker 2 (00:34:17):
Oh, um, we had mostly, um, and um, there’s some dog food and no kidding. <laugh> um, there are there’s I’ll tell you the truth, the top two. I don’t know if you can really see in there, it’s really like you’re raising your head. Like you can see,
Speaker 1 (00:34:41):
I know isn’t that <laugh> I can’t I tried <laugh>
Speaker 2 (00:34:47):
Wait, wait, let me see what’s over your head. Oh yeah, no, it might work that way, but the top two drawers are kinda a wreck. They’re literally, that’s all of the, those are negatives and Polaroid prints. They’re completely unorganized. And that’s actually a project that I have to take up that I’ll actually be starting next week. Um, I had to buy a bunch of, uh, some different boxes and dividers and things of ways of organizing, um, Polaroid prints and negatives and all of the crap that goes with it. Um, it’s very, everything’s pretty much been either, you know, printed or scanned or both. Um, but in order to kind of free up that space, I’m gonna be doing that. But there’s, you know, there’s things like Polaroids from, uh, when I was shooting stuff for, uh, the sanctuary body of work and there there’s, you know, negatives from, from Prague here. And then here’s some, uh, here’s some Polaroids from China <laugh> and it’s all kind of, it’s all kind of just tucked in here. So that’s actually something I’ll be, uh, getting organized with
Speaker 1 (00:36:07):
Speaker 2 (00:36:08):
It’s safe in there. Um, but there are some prints as well. This is what you were getting at, right? You like,
Speaker 1 (00:36:16):
Yeah. I mean, we’re about your photography and you know, we could do like a screen share of your website, but I think this is more fun.
Speaker 2 (00:36:22):
Oh, probably difficult to see through zoom. But, um,
Speaker 1 (00:36:28):
Melissa, I was like, Hey, surprise, what? What’s in your closet.
Speaker 2 (00:36:32):
Speaker 1 (00:36:34):
I, I did not. Um, prep.
Speaker 2 (00:36:37):
Yeah, listen, this, you wanted to keep it organic. Here you go. Yeah. <laugh> these were some, some print. These are actually prints direct, uh, scans of Polaroid positives. Really. It’s probably kind of hard to tell, uh, from China, uh, from Japan, that’s the Buddha in Uhura Japan outside of Tokyo. Um, sometimes I’ll scan Polaroid prints. This is actually, I’m gonna kind of make a small, I don’t know. I, I don’t, I hesitate to call it a body of work, more of a, kind of a collection of images, uh, that I have scanned that are, um, one of the films that I use or predominantly used is Polaroid 6 65. It isn’t made anymore, but when you peel it, you get a positive black and white print, and then you get the other part that used to kind of just throw away that you can clear. And it’s like actually a negative.
Speaker 2 (00:37:40):
Um, and that’s what I make a lot of work with. So, um, I always, I try to keep as many of the positive prints as well, and you’re supposed to, you know, they come with these coding sticks and it’s very old school and you have to like take out these stinky coater sticks and coat your Polaroids with it and let ’em dry. And then you save them. And that coat stick is basically kind of like a lacker that keeps them from fading away. Well, there have been plenty along the, along the way that I didn’t coat for whatever reason, cuz I was in, in the middle of shooting and then they get stuffed in a camera bag somewhere in a pocket and I’ll discover ’em weeks, months, years later. And they start to, they, they don’t really deteriorate, but although the highlights kind of fade away and they change start to change colors, um, and they kind of become something new and different along the way.
Speaker 2 (00:38:32):
Um, they don’t, they’re not the original picture that you had made anymore. Um, and I just think that that kind of transition of time, uh, that has an effect on, on an object like that, um, is interesting to me. So I started scanning them, uh, once they kind of hit once they kind of hit a certain, I don’t know decrepitness um, and then I think at some point I, some of them I’ll then I’ll coat them and I’ll see keep them that way. But then other ones I’ll still leave uncoded and maybe I’ll scan them again in a couple of years and see how, what that transition of time looks like. Um, but that’s what these are. These are just kind of, um, <affirmative> scans of those, uh, favorite prints. Um, and I think I may, I’ve done maybe 10 or 12 of them. And at some point I’ll probably just put ’em on the, on the website. Um, I never intend to print them any bigger than by 11 or eight by 10. Um, cuz I don’t think that they hold up that well when you make them really big. Um, and, and you know, in terms of selling artwork, you know, making them a smaller print like that, um, makes them kind of at a lower price point and something more affordable to
Speaker 1 (00:39:48):
Also something special about small prints. Yeah. The invention or with tech digital technology increasing. I mean, what was it maybe like 10, 15 years ago when they started rolling out all the big EEPs and printers and then everybody was just going as big as they could just because they could and, and you know, sometimes things are supposed to be big. Sometimes things are supposed to be small. And I think you have to listen to that.
Speaker 2 (00:40:18):
Yeah. I distinctly remember, uh, attend. I remember at photo LA LA and I think it was, I don’t know, 2000 8, 8 2, actually 2008, 2009, 2010. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you would walk, you would walk through the different booze and every photograph was just mm-hmm <affirmative> um, it didn’t matter because Epson had come out with all of these large format printers that were at that time considered affordable and a lot of photographers were buying them and making prints. Um, and then a lot of, a lot of photo labs had invested in, in technology. So even if you did wanna buy one yourself, it was really simple to take a file to a lab output, a large, um, um, inkjet print or at the time they were calling, everybody was calling them G cause it’s very, very mysterious and Avan Gar and you know, it was just, it was just a term <laugh> but um, yeah. I remember seeing plenty of prints and looking at them and thinking, I don’t, you know, why is it this big? Like, does it need to be this big, you know? Right.
Speaker 1 (00:41:28):
It could be bigger. Why isn’t it bigger? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:41:30):
<laugh> yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were, you know, there would be portraits of people, full length portraits of people that were literally life sized and
Speaker 1 (00:41:38):
I think he might be frozen. So there’s that so technical difficulties, we will work past this. Um, we’re sorry.
Speaker 3 (00:41:49):
The number you have dialed is not in service at this.
Speaker 1 (00:41:56):
All right. So we’re back, we’ve had some, uh, internet connections, uh, truly making it art in the raw. So getting over the learning curves anyways, keeping it interesting. What are you gonna do? Thanks with me, Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:42:13):
Oh no, no problem. Yeah. Art in the rod doesn’t just mean pants optional. It means anything could happen.
Speaker 1 (00:42:20):
Anything could happen. You know, like I said, those, those, uh, art shows back in the day, cause there’d be skateboarders flying through. Um, in this case we’re just losing the internet connection, which is not quite as exciting, but right. You know, maybe, maybe shows anything could happen, keeping it excited.
Speaker 2 (00:42:37):
<laugh> and may, may maybe on the next one, like a fire will break out somewhere and then you,
Speaker 1 (00:42:42):
Ah, I hope not.
Speaker 2 (00:42:44):
<laugh> not at your house, not at your house somewhere
Speaker 1 (00:42:46):
Else. Yeah. We’ve actually got a big one, um, about 20 miles away or, but we’ll get that out soon. So <laugh> right. But you know, her might run around and tap dance we’ll we’ll find out. Right. <laugh>
Speaker 2 (00:43:06):
It’s an interesting, but so I don’t know, what were we talking? Like what were we were just talking about? Uh, oh, we were talking about being all suddenly being with the new technology being made larger, but now things seem to be kind of going the other way, at least to a certain degree. Right. Do you see that? Do you see that at the gallery, do you, and from some of the work that you’ve seen lately?
Speaker 1 (00:43:29):
I do. And, and I’m, I’m a big believer in that there’s an ideal size, an ideal size for any really? Yeah. Um, just because you can go buy a canvas that’s 90 by 90 doesn’t mean you have to make paintings that are 90 by 90 and because, um, printers can let you print that size. Doesn’t mean you have to do that. So I’m kind of a big fan of, of, of little things.
Speaker 2 (00:43:55):
Yeah know like you, like I was saying, it does seem to be going that way. Um, not only is the physical size getting smaller, but the addition seemed to be getting smaller mm-hmm <affirmative> and then that’s what I was talking about before we got cut off. It’s when I was really, when I was working for a Ross, um, like he, he would audition his print, but the addition sizes were like a hundred and fifty, a hundred and seventy five. And you know, it, it, which is funny because we’re still really good friends and uh, he’s out where you are in Santa Fe and he’ll, he’ll tell you, like, some of those have actually sold. They’ve actually sold that over time. He’s sold that many prints of something. It doesn’t happen very often, but I mean, I think at a certain point, everybody realizes, well, you’re probably not gonna sell a hundred of any one particular print, uh, within a body of work, especially, um,
Speaker 1 (00:44:51):
Or how hard are you gonna be by the time you make that print? 150
Speaker 2 (00:44:55):
Times, right? Yeah, exactly. And honestly, I mean, people who are selling the work, I mean, I think that they kind of drive that they’re driving that bus a little bit and they’re saying let’s make the road a little narrower and let’s have of fewer prints available because scarcity breeds value. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> so, um, these days, I think when I first started, my, my initial thought was, oh, I’ll have, you know, the smaller, I I’ll I’ll offer something in like two sizes and smaller do 45. And, and then I quickly realized, I like, even that is way too many. And I think when in the very beginning, when I was auditioning prints, I settled on 25 for the smaller prints. And remember how much for the bigger prints, maybe 10. And then I quickly changed that right away to, uh, 10 for the smaller prints and four for the bigger ones trying to sell work, uh, or mu as many prints as you can, of any particular image is also probably not so important anymore because I think any working artist you’re always getting new work, you have more to not like you’re, you know, your, your livelihood doesn’t depend on selling, you know, 50 of a particular, um, your livelihood probably depends on, of different prints more so, so, um, you’re
Speaker 1 (00:46:28):
Speaker 2 (00:46:31):
Yeah. And these, especially in the analog realm, we’re seeing a lot of unique prints and unique objects. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, a lot of three dimensional work and a lot of, you know, one off types of images, um, especially with things, you know, people are selling original, uh, collodion, uh, you know, like either either plates or tin types. Um, and you know, they’re one of a kind, so it’s like, you know, the same as a painter creating one painting and selling that one painting and moving on and not making a bunch of reproductions of it or something, but, um, from a gallery director’s standpoint, does that, does it matter to you that the addition sizes, and do you have those discussions with the artists that you, uh,
Speaker 1 (00:47:22):
Oh, yeah, that that’s a conversation I have pretty pretty frequently. And even just, I mean, in the time I’ve been with the gallery, which, um, like I said, has been fifth, uh, 14 years, um, I’ve actually kind of witnessed the transition of, um, digital prints being a new thing. Yeah. In terms of, collectibility not a new thing in terms of, you know, being technically possible. But, um, I feel like when I started kind of early on, it was kind of a question where people were asking, you know, is this collectible, is this, you know, is this something I should really spend X amount of dollars on? And then even, maybe just even five, seven years later, it kind of into that was the most common style of print. And, and people were asking, you know, what a silver gelatin, you know, what your standard darkroom prints were that moved into the alt process category with some of the earliest processes.
Speaker 1 (00:48:29):
And, um, also as part of that addition sizes have just been decreasing and, and decreasing to the point where, I mean, I I’m joking, but I sometimes say, oh, they’re gonna be negative additions at some <laugh>. And, and really a lot of that’s, um, a as you may know, kind of trying to with the European market, whereas if something’s maybe over a collective addition size of like 12 it’s considered a poster mm-hmm <affirmative> and art also just being kind of considered as, um, in line with, um, just the art market. So trying to keep things small, um, right. But a lot of times things get small, the prices go up a thing to really consider too is, you know, how accessible do you want your work to be? I talk to some photographers and, you know, you, you get on this role of decreasing your addition size to the point where all of a sudden of prices are so high, that your average person can’t afford to buy a print. So who do you want your work to be for? Do you wanna sell five prints a year for, um, exceptionally high prices? Or do you even wanna do a, an open edition print? That’s $200. Anybody who wants it in theory could figure out a way to get it. So there’s, there’s all those kind of, all those kind of avenues of, you know, what, what is the intention? So
Speaker 2 (00:50:07):
Yeah, I can think of, there’s a couple of people I was wondering I can think of right. Immediately that, um, he doesn’t audition his work at all. And most of the prints he does are fairly small. They, like, I don’t know that he does anything larger than maybe something that would be 11 by 14 ish mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, generally eight by 10 or smaller. And they’re often TriMed to be odd sizes as well. Um, but, uh, he sells them for a lower price point, but he sells a lot of, um, and there’s a, you know, you know, yeah, your work is his, his work is wildly accessible to a large segment of the population. And in fact, before this whole COVID situation was happening, I was planning on buying three of his, and now I have to save my money <laugh> till we’re out of this situation.
Speaker 2 (00:51:02):
But, um, uh, but I didn’t care that, you know, think from, from the, from my perspective, I didn’t care that they weren’t auditioned. I didn’t care that they weren’t big, they were smaller and more precious. It was about the image. And it was about my relationship with that image. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, they were princes that, I knew that I was immediately going to have framed and immediately put on my wall where there are plenty of prints that I have from other people. Um, cuz I do collect, um, you know, and not, not majorly at, uh, certainly at all, but, um, I do make it a point to try to, to, to buy work that I really love. Um, and it has to be, obviously it has to be to a certain degree affordable and I have to really love it to begin with. So, um, his work fit, both of those criteria,
Speaker 1 (00:51:53):
I really firmly believe in terms of art making and art collecting. You should, you should make what you can’t help but make, and you should collect what you, what you’re just passionate about. There’s a whole thing about collecting where sometimes people are collecting and you know, and, and that’s fine too, but um, supporting young artists, um, is, is a great way to collect and um, you know, it’s gonna be a little more affordable typically, not always. Um, but you really wanna, you know, I, I just believe collecting what you love because right. Why else are you in it?
Speaker 2 (00:52:33):
Right. So that means we’re gonna have to have a separate zoom meeting and I’m gonna show you like every print I have in these print files. <laugh>
Speaker 1 (00:52:40):
I know that sounds good. I can, you all the prints that, that I have not, uh, framed <laugh> that reminds me of actually a question I have I’ve I’ve found there’s something about photographers. There’s something about the art of photographing that it it’s almost like a visual way of collecting. And I found a lot of photographers collect other random things. Do you, do you have any random collections you wanna
Speaker 2 (00:53:08):
Oh, right. Mention, yeah, actually that came, that, that came up when you had, I, I already forgot who it was that you were talking to who had some crazy collection.
Speaker 1 (00:53:18):
He was collecting, um, gas pump handles, right. <laugh> happening.
Speaker 2 (00:53:23):
<laugh> right. Yeah. I don’t think that. Okay. Well, when I was younger, I collected a lot of the typical things that young people do, like stamps and coins. And I was super nerdy about that kinda stuff. Um, um, I collected books, but they were simply the books that I had read. Um, now I think about if there’s a book that I’ve read that I really like, I actually want to give it to somebody else. Whereas before I was kind of the opposite, I would kind of hold onto all of the books I read. It was almost like a, like keeping a badge of honor of, uh, to a certain degree. So, um, now in terms of collecting, um, you know, I, I think that just being a photographer feeds that habit in general, the saying is like, when you go out, when you go out into nature, um, leave nothing, but footprints take nothing but photographs.
Speaker 2 (00:54:21):
Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> so in a way I kind of keep myself from doing that sort of like accumulating a lot of stuff, but I, through all of the travels that I’ve done, inevitably, I kind of collect things, usually like pieces of ephemera, like, um, take stubs and things like that. In fact, oh, actually just talking, you reminded me of the fact that, that I have kept not all, but I would say probably about 75 of all of the ticket stubs from all of the concerts that I’ve gone to over the years. Oh, nice. So, you know, from, through, from the eighties of the nineties to the odds to now, uh, um, it happens less frequently now because sometimes now they’re, they’re like digital digital tickets and they scan your phone, then you don’t get any kind of, there’s no paper for, but I have all kinds of like paper ticket stubs from Ticketmaster and live nation and all the different and all the, um, uh, promoters that have, uh, uh, promoted the different bands that I’ve gone to.
Speaker 2 (00:55:30):
Um, and other than that, because I have my, that obsessive addiction to using instant film with my own work, um, and having the fact that my father started me out with Polaroid, um, in my very early years. Uh, and the fact that I have carried that aesthetic from then until now I do keep a lot of the original Polaroid, uh, packaging and boxes. And like, um, when you would buy a box of Polaroid, you would get you, there would be the box, there would be the coding stakes and the boxes that came in and then like the instructions that I, you know, to a certain degree, I have a whole bunch of that stuff as well thought at one time that I might actually start actively seeking out and collecting that sort of thing. But I know for a fact that I would immediately get out of hand with it and I would be searching for places to put it all.
Speaker 2 (00:56:34):
And there would be people in my life who would be saying, you know, maybe these boxes in boxes of Polaroid crap can go out in the garage or somewhere else, or, you know, you just, you know, a certain point collecting that kinda stuff. I don’t know. It just isn’t necessary. Um, so I keep some key stuff that I, you know, will hold onto for a while, at least, um, the stuff that means something to me. So other than the ticket stubs and the Polaroid stuff, there isn’t anything crazy that I, that I, uh, collect. I prefer just to take photographs that works.
Speaker 1 (00:57:14):
Yeah. Is there a favorite show that you have a, a stub from that you like, is there like a, yeah. A
Speaker 2 (00:57:22):
Show ever? Yeah, actually probably my most favorite concert from my F most favorite band. Um, in 1994, I attended, um, pink Floyd’s last concert tour, uh, at the rose bowl in Pasadena, California. Yeah. I got to go to that. Um, uh, I grew up a huge pink Floyd fan and I still am. And, um, it was an incredible show. Um, I remember specifics about the show. I remember who I was with. I kept the stub, um, and it turns out that part of that show was recorded and is part of a, a, a live, a live recording that you can purchase from them as well. Um, so it was kind of nice to be a part of that as well. In fact, actually there have been a few concerts that I’ve been to that have been recorded and come out as live, uh, live concert album.
Speaker 1 (00:58:25):
So they specifically recorded the show you were at or just
Speaker 2 (00:58:28):
From the, yeah, at least in, in part it’s, it’s a recording that took, I think they record part of, it was at the rose bowl and part of it was at a venue in London and they kind of mixed it together, um, uh, for special live package that they released. I literally think it was maybe a year or two after, because it was all based upon that one particular tour. So
Speaker 1 (00:58:50):
Did you get the t-shirt?
Speaker 2 (00:58:53):
Um, I don’t, I didn’t buy, did I buy a t-shirt? I didn’t buy a t-shirt. I used to buy t-shirts all of the time and they became just idiotically expensive. Yeah. Um, because they were always the worst materials, uh, used those shirts and you would watch them like three or four times and they would just fall apart. <laugh> fall apart. I do have, I do have I, and I naturally know who they are. I, I own, I think, three or four concert t-shirts from the eighties that I, for shows that I attended. Um, and one of ’em I like I’ll, I’ll probably never part with the other ones ever go away. That’s fine. But one of them, uh, it was an Aussie OER tour that I went to and, uh, it was a very unique shirt and it was something that I had never seen, um, anybody kind of do before. So, uh, and thankfully it didn’t fall apart. And once in a blue moon I’ll wear it <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
So, um, I actually also had the honor of attending part of that pink Floyd tour in 1994 only. Nice. It was a show in Denver. Very good. And I forget what the venue was, but, but I actually have that ticket as well. And right. That was their last tour. Wasn’t it? It was, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
It was, it was incredible. I mean, it could only have been done, like you must have gone, it had to have been in a stadium. Cause I don’t know that there was any other way
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
It was yeah. To do it. Whatever stadium was in Denver at that time, they’ve since changed. Right. I don’t know what it is anymore. I’ve moved away from Denver 20 years ago and they’ve built a new stadium since then, but it was, it was definitely a massive crowd and they had, they had the big inflatable pink pig and yeah, that, it was, it was definitely super memorable. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah. I mean, since then, uh, both David Gilmore and, and Roger Waters have done, uh, tours of their own. And I’ve attended those as well since because obviously that’s the, uh, that’s the closest you can get to going to an actual pink Floyd show. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. Um, I was, I felt very, I feel very fortunate that I was able to go. Um, I had no idea that that was gonna be the last tour. I don’t know that anybody that included
Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Them, but I don’t think so.
Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Just worked out that way. So that’s interesting. That’s so funny that you went to that tour as well in a different city. I don’t know anybody else that went to that tour other than the people that I was with
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
And, and my ticket is kind of fading. Um, so I still have it, but you have it. I photographed it because the, the text was starting to or text or I don’t know, whatever you call it’s. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
It’s was fading away.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Has not bend behind UV, uh, protective block or whatnot. And I, oh,
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Did you have a framed?
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
I didn’t get it framed. Now it was drawer and I hold it out a few years ago, just looking through stuff and yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
I don’t know exactly where it is, where all of those are, but they’re, they’re act, they’re actually in this desk right here. I could probably find it, but I did it take me a while to dig through them all <laugh> to find that particular one, but, uh, yeah, that’s probably, it’s probably a good idea. I should probably photograph them all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Yeah. I was just, I don’t know, whatever the technology was to, to print the actual, um, text on the tickets is I dunno. Yeah, it’s not archival, so
Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
<laugh> no, not at all. Although I find it interesting, like, like we’re way off base with photography and art, but, um, yeah, it’s music. Uh, I had a friend when I, when I lived in San Francisco, I had, when I was starting out, uh, I, I had moved from Los Angeles and I was living in San Francisco when I worked for Allen Ross and I had my own studio. Um, and I shared it with somebody else who was, uh, much older than I, and he had attended Woodstock and he still had, he had a ticket stub that he had used to attend. And then he had an, an entire, the entire UN torn off, uh, Woodstock ticket from a friend of his who called it the last minute and said he couldn’t go. But he, so, but he kept that take us up. It’s probably like worth some insane amount of money, but, um, probably <laugh> I remember him showing them to me and it was like they had been printed yesterday. Wow. It was, it was like they were brand new. They were like, the edges were all crisp and corners were crisp. It was great. I thought it was interesting, but anyway, that’s cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
<laugh> that’s cool. Yeah. I mean, art music, it’s, it’s, it’s all connected. I think it’s all, all creative people doing what they’re doing and yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Definitely. And I think that that’s a, another reason why, what you’re doing is going to be very successful. I think your idea to not make it simply about, um, photography or photographers, but keep it open to other artists from different mediums as well, and then maybe pair people up and, or have little, you know, group discussions and, and things like that. Um, find finding the, the common thread that binds us all together is, uh, uh, an important aspect of what you’re doing.
Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Yeah. Well, thank you. And, and like I said, I’m not gonna put you on the spot now, but I might be hitting you up soon to see if you wanna participate in one of those other conversations. And, um, yeah. So, you know, I can talk very cool. Um, well thank you for, for doing this, um, before I let you go, which I might do in a second before the internet does something weird. <laugh> um, have you, have you watched any old classic movies recently that, um, kind of had new life to them
Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Life? Like, I, I re-watched back to the future the other day and hadn’t watched it maybe since it was a new film and I thought, you know, wow, that was actually pretty good.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Oh, like, so it it’s still held up for you. Yeah. Yeah. I did the passage of time. Didn’t didn’t diminish it at all. Yeah. A lot of my work has kind of been inspired by film directors. Two in particular, one is Stanley Crick and the other one is Terry Gillum. Um, who obviously started out for those of you that, that don’t know started out as a member of Bon Python. He was the only American member of the Bon Python troop. Um, and he went on to, uh, to do, to do film directing and, um, hi, a lot of how he shoots and a lot of the way how he portrays things I really kind of identify with. So I recently, he watched, uh, money Python in the holy grail that he co-directed with, uh, uh, Terry Gillum. And I will say that anytime the movie 12 monkeys is on, I will watch that, uh, from whenever it’s, whenever I pick it up, like if I turn on the TV and it was on HBO or something, um, I’ll keep watching it from that point forward. Um, because I really, I really loved the way that it was shot and the, uh, and how it was done. Um, and his work and Stanley, and obviously Stanley Kubrick’s work, um, holds up for me as well. So, um, I would, I would count every, every movie from both of those directors. So being on that list.
Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Awesome. That question was just kind of inspired by. Everybody’s been at home a little more. So I feel like I’ve talked to a lot of people, but have just been revisiting yeah. Everything, um, old, you know, music, they maybe hadn’t listened to in a long time movies. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, they hadn’t watched time. Um, so just revisiting so
Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Well, I’m always watch, I’m always listening to music that, uh, you know, I listen to a lot of music and, uh, I love a lot of different types of music. Um, but talking about the films and bringing that up makes me realize that I haven’t seen citizen Kane in a really long time. And I think I’d like to see that because I think that the visuals that you would find in that movie are something that I would identify with as well.
Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
So in terms of your own photography. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Yeah, I think so. So, um, I, I was, I will say that you’ve inspired me. You go out and, and, uh, watch another film that I haven’t seen in a long time, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Awesome. Well, it’s all connected, so it’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me, us, um, for being on the show art and the raw first ever more coming. Um, it really, really appreciate it. It’s been fun. Um, I look forward to, to doing more of these and, um, for, for anybody who’s watching now in real time, um, if you enjoyed this, please like comment, subscribe, and thank you, Michael.
Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Excellent. Thank you, Anne. I really appreciate spending this time with you. It’s been wonderful. Yeah. Thanks again. And, and we will talk soon.
Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
Excellent. All right, Anne. Thank you very much. Bye everybody you, I.
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