Goldleaf Framemakers is a leading manufacturer of hand-carved, gilded, finished-corner picture frames. We have provided fine art services for galleries, museums, private collectors, and the hospitality industry since 1988.
Anne Kelly (00:12):
This is Art in the Raw today we have with us David Horowitz from the Goldleaf Frame shop. I’m your host and Kelly. Welcome David.
David Horowitz (00:24):
Thank you. Yes, this is, uh, gold frame makers of Santa Fe. My father started this business back in 1988. I’m the, uh, sole proprietor at this point, cuz my father unfortunately is not with us anymore behind me. You can see, we specialize in making historic production picture frames. None of them are really old. They’re just made to look that way and we try to match all of our frames with the different periods, uh, that the art requires. So, so
Anne Kelly (00:51):
I was checking out the website earlier and according to the website, you have 2000 samples.
David Horowitz (00:58):
It’s POS yeah, that sounds right. Well, and one
Anne Kelly (01:01):
Of the, the unique things that, that you guys are known for is that you hand carve and Guild frames and it, you could come in for example, and reference a part of the world and era that you wanted that frame to be inspired by this.
David Horowitz (01:23):
Is that accurate? Yeah, well, sure, sure. Well, what we try to do with our frames is we try to pull them from examples as directly as we can. Like this frame here is a, uh, it’s a ping frame and the MECI family had commissioned a whole series of frames like this to be hung in the OFI in Florence. And, uh, as far as we know where the only people that have ever hand carved one of these on the side of the ocean, and you can see here that this is all a 22 carry gold on this frame. And, um,
Anne Kelly (01:54):
And this is all being done in house, which is kind of a rare thing as well. Isn’t it? A lot of carved one place and
David Horowitz (02:02):
Like a really crazy thing like manufacturing in the United States. Mm-hmm , especially in 2020 is very difficult. Um, it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort and a lot of skilled artisans to make these things. So yeah, all of these techniques have been passed down since like the Renaissance, basically like artist handbook. We make our own JSO. Um, we make our own clay. Most of the, the gold is sourced from Europe or China. There are some American gold beers. So in existence, uh, that, that’s what we drink. You wanna make sure that you’re drinking only the finest quality gold so that you don’t accidentally, you know, poison yourself. So,
Anne Kelly (02:42):
Right. So, so we’re having a drink to on art and the raw and, um, David has a gold leafed cocktail I’m at home. So I do not, I didn’t plan that ahead.
David Horowitz (02:56):
Yeah, we should have Giled at it like earlier. When did I see you last week? I actually saw you as a real person, but
Anne Kelly (03:02):
You know, I was, I was reading earlier that apparently they were gold leafing cocktails back in the 16th century.
David Horowitz (03:10):
Well, the techniques that we do, the, the technique that we do to actually apply the gold is, is called water gelding. Mm-hmm which most of the time, if you seen something Giled or if you’ve Giled something it’s it’s oil gilding, so you apply a size and it becomes tacky. And then you just stick the gold to the surface of it. This, what we’re doing here is we’re actually floating the gold on top of, um, like a pool of water. And as the water evaporates and dries, it’s reactivated the glue and the surface, and then the gold sticks to it. This is actually goes back as far as the Egyptians, uh, it’s a much trickier process and it allows us to do some things. Some of the things that make our frames as pretty as they are, is because of the fact that they’re water gelded and not oil gelded. And it’s basically not having that sticky glue layer in there to mess up everything we can, we can make everything shine a lot easier. So,
Anne Kelly (04:01):
So, so being in the gallery business, as long as I have framing has, has become something that I’ve become knowledgeable about on a certain level and more than that kind of excited about it. So I, I love not just selling a piece of artwork, but also getting to help a client frame am the piece. And not that I wanna frame it, but bringing it over to, um, gold leaf and, and talking to David and figuring out a great frame for it, cuz that’s kind of the final aspect. So they, they don’t just do the hand carved gilded frames over there. They will also make a standard black frame for, for my as well.
David Horowitz (04:41):
Yeah. Cause as much, as much as it’s wonderful to adorn your frames and traditional to do it and gold, uh, the most important thing with a picture frame is to make sure that the art is protected and, and that’s protected like physically, if somebody was gonna walk into it or drop it, but also be, be it protected. Like archivally. So one of the thing, things that we take pride in here too, is also using like the highest quality of materials. So even if it’s an inexpensive frame that still means UV glass, it still means asset free rag, backing boards and stuff like that. So that your art won’t deteriorate, you know, and a lot of people too, they framing’s expensive. Like no matter how you, you cut it out of people say, oh, my aunt made this piece, you know, so it’s not worth anything.
David Horowitz (05:26):
And I tell people all the time, since your aunt made the piece, it’s worth everything, it’s, it’s irreplaceable. The sentimental valuable, the sentimental value of it is, is, you know, far more important than the value of something that could be replaced. So we wanna protect whether it’s in yeah, an inexpensive frame, you know, as low as like, or $15, a foot to $1,500 a foot for a molding or a picture frame, depending on how you look at it. It’s just, you know, sure. In a lot of ways it costs what it costs. And we do, we do the best that we can cuz everybody, everybody has a, a budget restriction, you know, like never, well maybe once or twice does somebody come in here and say, I don’t care what it costs. I just wanna, you know, I’ve had people that, that talenting frame I was showing earlier.
David Horowitz (06:12):
I had a wonderful woman come in and buy, uh, one of those frames in that size, hang in her house empty just cuz she loved the frame so much. Um oh, but that happened one time with one with one lady. So I grew up in this business too, a little bit of history on me. I grew up in this business. I’ve been back at Goldie FrameMaker for 10 years now it’s 2020. Right. um, and I started framing when I was 15 and I worked for other shops around town and, and have done kind of every aspect of this throughout my, my growing up escape for a few years. But uh, Santa Fe in particular and working with my wonderful family was what brought me back here. You multiple people in this building have here since I’ve been eight years old. So
Anne Kelly (07:00):
Which is kind of a rare, a very rare thing in this day and age, I think just working anywhere for, for that long.
David Horowitz (07:07):
Right. And there’s so many times that like we could have given up and probably should have given up or, and didn’t, you know, this last year, this, this pandemic and stuff that happened too, was almost Revit for me and to speak on behalf of like, you know, my crew and stuff too. We really realized what it would be like to, to have to go on without doing all this crazy stuff on a day to day basis. You know, the frames that drive us crazy. I know like a lot of people, everything was closed down and we saw that window into the other world of what it would be like if we just, you know, had an easy job or just went and made money. Like mm-hmm I was like, why don’t I, why do I work so hard and make so little? And you know, I think that a lot of us artists and Zoe say the same, you know, well it’s for the art, right? It’s cuz we love it. It’s because this is what we do. This is what, you know, makes us us. And then we still think, but why it works so hard and make such little money and really
Anne Kelly (08:02):
Well. And that’s what this show is all about. Creative people doing things that they love to do. It’s
David Horowitz (08:09):
Right. And, and I think that a lot of PE, you know, we just have to, we just have to do it. Um, mm-hmm I love the fact that this place is like a, you know, now it’s now it’s multi generat. Now it’s family tradition now it’s, you know, all this stuff, but uh, you know, Roland who will see in the back and stuff too. I mean, his kids are five and eight and I hope that when I’m, you know, 60 they’ll be my age. Does that make ? I think that actually makes sense. They’ll be about my age when I’m in my early sixties and hopefully they’re the ones in the back, you know, telling me, uh, telling me what’s going on. So yeah, I can be the old guy be the old guy someday knowing that there’s another generation out there. So,
Anne Kelly (08:51):
And, and your father, Marty, he, I mean, he literally wrote the book on gold leaf framing. I mean, right.
David Horowitz (08:57):
Yeah. No intro to water. Actually. I had the copy. Let’s see. Can I walk frame? Probably. I just saw this was sitting on the, uh, sitting on the table earlier today. I’m like, oh, that’s cool. Why is, why is dad’s book at, um, introduction to watering? No, for years, this was it. This was knowledge that was pat as down from like master to apprentice and it was kept top secret and there was all this Hocus PO alchemy. Like you had to tap on the frame, you know, just write and listen for the sound of the substrate to make sure that it was time to burnish the frame and all this that just, he, he had to fight tooth the nail to get the information out, these old masters in New York. And he wanted to make sure that not only did, was it accessible for other people, but that we, that he, he actually went out and taught other people how to do that for years.
David Horowitz (09:43):
So the whole, uh, sales angle on that too, if you wanna, well, if somebody’s making gold picture frames, like why would you just teach everybody else how to do it? Um, which is basically like you teach everybody else how hard it is so that they wanna do it and that they know how to sell it themselves. Like from a framing wholesaling standpoint, you know, whereas educating people to sell and design, using real picture frames, which is all other aspect of our business. That’s, that’s like a crucial part of it is understanding how these things are made and on our website. And you would reference that video before though, too. There’s a, there’s a, that goes through the whole process and we can go walk into the back and see the process in action.
Anne Kelly (10:22):
Yeah. So that’s, that’s, that’s coming up. We’re gonna go in the back. We’re gonna harass all of the employees, see what they’re, what they’re doing back there. Cause I mean this whole, um, business it’s collaborative, you’ve got a, like you said, a wonderful staff. Um, some people that have worked there for quite some time dedicated to their, their craft, they, they all play
David Horowitz (10:44):
A role. There’s 10 of us or 12 of us somewhere around there at this point. So yeah, it’s definitely, we make 400 frames a year, somewhere around there, you know, and if you think of how many days businesses are and how they’re all hand carved and all that, that’s a lot . But again, fortunately like being an artisan now, and I hope that this trend continues is people seem to be really having a lot more like reaction and need for the trades, like bringing people, uh, you know, like actual, real artisans into their home and stuff. Cuz everybody’s sitting at home staring at empty walls or walls that need to be faint painted or broken fences or whatever the hell it is, you know? So
Anne Kelly (11:27):
Are people realize they’re tired of their art or don’t like the frames that they have or
David Horowitz (11:33):
Yeah. Or I think that they’ve actually been getting mad and just breaking. Cause we’ve getting a lot of room theres,
Anne Kelly (11:40):
Well that that’s possible.
David Horowitz (11:41):
Everybody’s been sitting at home too long, drinking too much and smashing things. So like, yeah, I’ve just noticed that recently. I think it’s the upcoming cold snap. Everybody’s worried, you know? Yeah.
Anne Kelly (11:51):
Just time to get some new things. And, and so yeah, like I said, all the time, uh, I, I bring a lot of work into gold leaf to have framed and they do everything from so when we’re talking about inexpensive frames, that means prefabricated, meaning that they’re ordering it from pre chopped.
David Horowitz (12:11):
Yeah. Like molding, um, a lot of people in the frame world. And I always found that funny when I started working in sales and stuff from this angle, people would call our, the frames that we make finished corner to frames and I would always contest. They, no, those are frames. everything else. Those are like chopped frames. So I always do approach everything from that angle here. We’ll show you. But yeah, like you were saying, just because it’s not, it’s not a handmade Giled frame doesn’t mean that, uh, it can’t be a good frame. There we go. Okay. There look, aha. See, so we’ve got, we’ve got colors, we’ve got glitter. We’ve got, you know, there you go. Your basic black photo frames and all this stuff is still some of the best quality stuff that you can buy, but it’s all, you know, length molding that has the, uh, the mire and stuff in there. So affordable, affordable frames in the world of frames.
Anne Kelly (13:06):
I hope someday I can come in and say, I would like a frame from the 17th century and Italy.
David Horowitz (13:16):
Okay. Well now I’m in France, but you know,
Anne Kelly (13:18):
Or France. I mean, I just
David Horowitz (13:20):
That up, he nice Louis 13 continuous continuous car with little flowers all over it because
Anne Kelly (13:27):
Cause part of, kind of, part of, one of the things you’re interested in at gold frame shop is, is pairing a piece of artwork with the a right frame. So if a, if a piece of artwork is from a certain era that maybe a frame should match that.
David Horowitz (13:42):
Well actually yes, it makes it like a lot easier to frame and design frames. If you look at the art that way, like here, here’s a piece, right? And this is, um, this is a piece by our frame, Bruce, but it’s like, it’s very Dutch in style and therefore we put it into a Dutch frame here actually. And I’ll flip this camera around here and do that again. Cause like I went, there we go. There’s the better camera though, too. So this is in the style of like a Dutch painting. Um, although he is not a Dutch man, he’s from New Jersey, but you’ve you take that style in a historically you pair it with a Dutch frame here. This one has Tor to shell inlays key corners. Um, and you can see how wonderful that little apple looks now. And I get that a lot too, cuz like I’ll, I’ll show people different.
David Horowitz (14:31):
I’ll show people gold frames on their artwork. And they’ve said, I didn’t think I would like a gold frame, but traditionally the gold was actually used to help bounce light off of, you know, different ambient sources onto the artwork. So the gold like actually illuminates a painting when the, you know, when you put a frame on it that is, you know, covered in gold. So it’ll actually really brighten up the artwork and, and, and it pulls your attention towards the artwork, you know, cuz you can do here. Here’s a, uh, is really cool, weird painting in, in an old, you know, frame that’s falling apart and it, it just has no life in it. You know, the frame is just as part as just that, that, excuse me, is just part of the, uh, existed part of the drapes in there and it should really have a gold frame on it. Not one of these gold frames. I don’t actually know what to do with this painting here. So,
Anne Kelly (15:21):
So, so did that client bring that piece in to have it refitted in a new frame that you guys will carve? Uh,
David Horowitz (15:28):
Yeah. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll be doing something for it. Cuz the, this thing is just, uh, is this frame is falling apart and not really, not really worth the time it would take to kind of fix it. Here’s another piece too. And again, I should talk to you about using these shots with the artwork in it. When I think about it further, sure this is a frame that’s actually in for repair. It’s been taring and uh, you know, we need to, we need to fix it up. Somebody got too excited about cleaning their own, uh, their own picture frame and, and wiped off the lacker and then the white gold tarnished. So thanks.
Anne Kelly (16:06):
Well sh shall we go in the back? See, see what’s happening?
David Horowitz (16:10):
Yes, let’s do that. Let’s see what’s happening in the back list.
Anne Kelly (16:13):
There’s a lot of interesting things happening behind the scenes.
David Horowitz (16:16):
Yep. There’s a lot of just stuff in this building though, too. So yes. Office area office. This is the office area. There’s Marty’s art. It’s actually Marty over there on the, on the mantle piece there, this is his Michael Jackson casket that we and a friend sat, uh, had had made for us. And we, we Giled that in 23 carry gold. Well it
Anne Kelly (16:43):
Had to be Giled
David Horowitz (16:45):
It? I mean it had to be Giled what was fun was that we actually like ran out of the good gold. So we did it once and you wanna double Guild stuff like that. So we, we went to Gil it again and he was actually in the U. So we actually gilded him, which I know he would’ve appreciated. I think so. All right, here we go. Wood shop. Everybody’s working. He’s rolling again.
Anne Kelly (17:11):
Hey rolling. What are you doing?
David Horowitz (17:14):
I am starving this well, Spanish is a Spanish Italian frame. Yep. This is what probably, I don’t know. 17th century say 16th century says our crack Geno on it here. So this frame would just
Anne Kelly (17:38):
The same client. Did they provide the original frame
David Horowitz (17:43):
And then, oh no, this is one of our corner samples. So this is uh, okay, gotcha. This is off of our wall and you know, frame shops around the country have this in there and they will sell this one. We sold though too a while ago and getting molding this year has been taking a really long time. So I dunno. When did you start carving this frame? Uh, this morning. Oh, this is this morning cheese rolling. Wow.
Anne Kelly (18:06):
So what kind of wood is that?
David Horowitz (18:11):
This is uh basswood so we prefer to use basswood when we can, it’s got a really consistent grain pattern and is like relatively soft compared to, uh, most hardwoods it’s actually classified as a hardwood. Soone how long have you been at the shop now? I’ve been here selectively about six, I believe, 18, 16 years. Carbon frames.
Anne Kelly (18:50):
So, so it’s basically all hand tools that you’re using. Yeah.
David Horowitz (18:56):
Yeah, we use, uh, we’ve got some, we’ve got a shaper table and a able saw and stuff, but when it comes down to actual carving everything by here, cause you can see, this is just a square piece of wood. Yeah. That’s nice.
Anne Kelly (19:15):
David Horowitz (19:30):
So when Roland started working here, we only did simple things compared to what we’re capable of doing now.
Anne Kelly (19:40):
I mean, this is, this is, I mean, a lot of people don’t consider framing art, but this clearly is, I mean, this is, I mean like you mentioned the story of the woman who just came in and bought a frame just to hang on her wall without art, even in, I mean that makes a lot of sense to me.
David Horowitz (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah. That was the frame. Yep.
Anne Kelly (20:04):
I mean, I would probably end up putting a piece of arc in it. maybe not. I don’t know, but I mean, I,
David Horowitz (20:11):
You better have a nice wall behind it,
Anne Kelly (20:14):
Right. At least repaint the wall or something like that.
David Horowitz (20:18):
Right? Yep. That’s see to know you’re getting the little, he’s getting the little veins in there. Gotta make sure I’m like looking through the camera that I’m not too close and then I get stabbed over here. I’ll be careful. so part of me was that you like, you know, well you do anything for 16 years and you might be good at it, but I mean is one of the most talented, uh, artists I’ve ever watched work, even if it’s brand new stuff, like you’ve just been started doing, um, what do you call that? Leather? Leather tooling. Yeah. Yeah. And even just like Roland’s first like, uh, oh, check it out. I was playing with this piece of leather yesterday. Holy dude. Yeah, I got it out front. So this is how an Italian frame is born
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Anne Kelly (21:20):
So, so how much long, or how long do you anticipate carving this particular frame? You said you just started it today?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Um, probably, and then it will go into, um, preparation for Jesso.
Anne Kelly (21:39):
So kinda like when you stretch a canvas, you would Jesso that canvas so that the paint doesn’t see through the canvas and it’s kind of a SIM, is it kind of a similar thing? Withing
Speaker 3 (21:50):
The frame basically discuss is the wood mm-hmm so when it gets skilled, it looks like it’s solid gold or uh, you know, pieces material it’s out for me of the wood into gold.
David Horowitz (22:05):
Here’s another frame that’s getting prepped for Jesso. This is, this is another frame here. So here we go. But grace also started on this one this morning. So grace has been working with us for three years and as painting in every spare moment of her time. all right. So you ask, you asked tools and stuff though, too. You see this guy over here, cutting Miers on our dedicated frame square. Do you mind if I film you Dylan? Okay. If you say no. Yeah, we’ll cut you out. If he cut your finger off. Cause that would be too wouldn’t make it. So yeah. so this is one of these specific tools of the trade. The frame square frame saw that only cuts at that magic angle.
Anne Kelly (23:12):
So we’re minoring the corners.
David Horowitz (23:14):
Yeah. So more so than minoring this corner, this was a
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Let’s see here.
David Horowitz (23:24):
So this is a maple frame and we don’t just have molding for this. We go to Alpine lumber down the road and we pick out each board of maple for each frame. And then it’s milled into milled into the molding that we, we make into the frame here. So
Anne Kelly (23:38):
We’re lucky to have Alpine here in Santa Fe, they have so many amazing, just different types of wood and right.
David Horowitz (23:45):
They have really, really good, fine quality lumber. We were just looking at that earlier. Here’s some cherry wood that we bought. So these frames here they’re hanging backwards, but uh, these will all have their sides masked off and then we’ll be able to build the face of them so that you’ll have just like the, the white gold or a yellow gold face. Oh, something’s sprayed. Wait, let’s see. What’s happening in here. Wow. Claire’s gonna spray Jesso. You done. Are you done but loud as in here anyway. So so this frame here was this spray in Jesso. One of the only differences that we have between uh, oh, Hey, thanks. That’s Claire. She’s been here for a year or more. Yeah.
David Horowitz (24:47):
It’s uh, Grace’s sister. Grace made me hire her before we even met. Cuz she both, they both came outta the Kansas city art Institute, which is a fine establishment. Claire’s a sculptor and a ceramicist that’s that has a, a word that you say, right? Yeah. that was a very artisan, a very happy edition here. So this frame has just been sprayed. Yeah. We’re covering up the wood grain here. Uh, rolling carve this last week. I don’t know, Thursday, Friday, really simple impressionist carve that will soon be gold. So this frame’s actually gonna get Giled tomorrow. It’s kind of on the fast track we were behind waiting for some molding. Here is another contemporary frame here. And what you can see on the table is all the, the, the months on the table and on the wall here is about, uh, 14 or 15 years of over spray, cleaning out the guns at this, uh, this little cooking station back here. So it’s like a cave or something you get sprayed and um, in Jesso then it gets sanded. And uh, here’s a frame in process. Cause what’s really nice about this Jesso here. Here we go.
David Horowitz (26:04):
So this is a calcium carbonate is like super soft. And I mentioned earlier, we just use calcium, carbon and water and uh, some hide blues and that’s, that’s it, that’s all that’s in it. So it’s not like if anybody’s sanded stuff, like if you’ve ever sanded, um, store bought Jesso, it gets really gummy and gross. Um, this won’t do that cuz there’s no, there’s nothing synthetic about it. It’s all just, um, natural ingredients here. Let’s see. Then we come into this room and this frame was just Giled. Today is a redid Whistler frame. So late 19th century and it’s actually like still wet right now. You can see the way that the gold is spanned across these little gaps in the molding. So this frame is one of, uh, is one of three over here that uh, now, now zoom camera zoom. Okay. So we’ve got actually three of these things, hang up. All of these frames over here are waiting to be Giled.
Anne Kelly (27:18):
How long does it take those to dry
David Horowitz (27:20):
Anne Kelly (27:22):
So that one, that, that frame that’s on the table tomorrow they’ll come in and make some final adjustments and then it’ll be ready to send over to SL
David Horowitz (27:35):
Uh, yeah, more or less, these ones are actually getting shipped to where, where do these ones go? I don’t see a ticket anywhere. These ones are getting shipped at like this frame here is getting shipped at, uh . Um, and it will all seem to go, here’s a corner sample over here. There’s still like a bit more process. Like first we need to burnish portions of the frame. We using these AGT stones and then we gotta patina it so that it, you know, we give it at, give it its age, depending on say trip and fall over there, depending on the period, you know, this is, let’s see, ah, here we go. So here’s the actual corner sample for this Whistler frame here. So you can see by the time we’re done with it, it makes here of burnishing the high points and leaving the low points mat and then like braiding it and putting washes and stuff on it.
David Horowitz (28:25):
You can actually kind OFS. You can see what’s happening here as opposed to over here, which is still raw. You know, cuz the gold itself is actually like so shiny in most cases. Um, because we’re not just like illuminating paintings off of like candlelight. We try to, uh, we try to knock ’em back a little bit again to replicate that period. Like this frame of up here is a beautiful, a beautiful friend frame. It has a, this is real patina. So this thing’s hundreds of years old here and you can see the way that it looks over time. So we leave these things up to look at them and to try to match them and, and be inspired like this one back here too, all the you and frame, beautiful carves and SWOS and replication corner samples. We’ve got just stuff laying everywhere. This is our shipping department, drum kits and crates and all sorts of stuff over here.
Anne Kelly (29:24):
So yeah, a lot of these carving and then just shipping the frame itself and then it’s getting fit where our, yeah, that’s
David Horowitz (29:31):
Going about a third of our art. Unfortunately we don’t know where it’s going. Um, but a lot of stuff here, here, slate hiding behind a coiled rope
Anne Kelly (29:42):
David Horowitz (29:44):
So this is local artist, Carlos Carlo. And uh, this is one of our cherry sides with the 22 K face high burnished, uh, gold frame on it. Enla is tasked with handling the,
Anne Kelly (30:02):
That is a big piece.
David Horowitz (30:05):
Yeah. And he’s got these clamps set up, so this is a floating fit. So this is a tricky operation here cuz he is actually screwing through the panel in the back of the frame, into the canvas. This is what it looks like under blades table. Yeah. How long have you been screwing in canvases for us LA three years. Three years.
Anne Kelly (30:31):
But the nice thing about this piece is there isn’t any glass or acrylic that you’re having to, to battle with to keep all of the dust out. Right? Right.
David Horowitz (30:40):
Exactly. These are easy. We’ve got our wait look at this called an ionizing gun for our plexiglass. It makes 7,000 volts and it actually somehow, uh, what does it do? It shoots it shoots ions at the plexiglass. So it distributes the, the static electrical charge. So it blows the way the lint simultaneously and try to have the,
Anne Kelly (31:05):
No, you you’ve got a lot of amazing tools and an amazing crew back there. A lot of the people that work at Goldleaf Frame shop are artists that create artwork outside of the, the frames. Is that, yeah,
David Horowitz (31:17):
That’s true. I think like everybody here from, you know, painting sculpture, ceramics, uh, just carving Cassidy, you didn’t get to meet today. Uh, well you’ve met beforehand, but she’s a, but she’s a comic book artist. Uh, everybody is just really talented here. It’s really fantastic. And with like we were playing around, making prints the other night doing transfers and this sort of thing. There’s like somebody usually on staff that knows what they’re doing. Mm-hmm so it makes it, uh, like you can just like kinda like ask around here for a few minutes and you’ll find somebody with the knowledge to help you out with the project that you’re trying to accomplish. It’s really wonderful that we all get to work together. And one of the biggest parks that we have for the people that work at the shop is that like, you know, the, this is all studio space, so everybody’s got keys.
David Horowitz (32:09):
Everybody can come in and, and make their own art afterwards and stuff. So we try to like make, we try to make the workshop that we make frames in. Like as much as we all love making, you know, love frames or we’re framed nerds and stuff like that too. Like we try to make this whole place a place to share ideas and to, and learn from each other and to actually have a, have a space to use and work and use the tools or use the information that we learn from each other. So a fantastic place to be
Anne Kelly (32:36):
Great. It’s a great community.
David Horowitz (32:38):
Yeah. And there’s been a lot of people that have stuck around making frames for a lot longer than maybe they should have because they didn’t , they didn’t wanna leave everybody else here. And then there’s a lot of people that like, it gets really tough too, when you find somebody that really wants to, um, that really wants to make frames or really wants to do this kind of work. But then you, you put them in a room with like, you know, four other people
Anne Kelly (33:00):
For 40 hours a week and they don’t get along. Like, it doesn’t really, that doesn’t really work out very well. People are like, oh, well, you know, it shouldn’t be about personality and stuff, but if anybody’s ever worked in a studio with people, like it’s definitely that aspect to it too. Like, so it’s tough, but Santa Fe’s a really great play to, and you were doing a gallery in the, in the front for a while, right? Yeah.
David Horowitz (33:26):
Yeah. We had a, we had Goldie gallery up and running. Yeah. And I know you
Anne Kelly (33:30):
Had a, you had a show of Roland’s work and lot.
David Horowitz (33:34):
Yeah. We did a Roland, a and Leah Anderson who were both employed here. They had a group show and that was a year ago. I think, cuz it was, that was like fall Equinox.
Anne Kelly (33:45):
Is that a year
David Horowitz (33:45):
Ago? 2019. Yeah mm-hmm so that was cool. That was a nice thing to offer them as offer them an actual show for people to come to here we’ve we haven’t been doing the gallery thing, um, as much as well. Now it’s a virus and stuff too, but we had stopped. We had like closed it down last winter. It was like too much to keep up with in the midst of everything else, you know, with the just running production and stuff like that. So as you know, it takes a lot of time to run a gallery. So yes. You know, it’s like we tell artists to a lot of artists try to make the, our own frames and you know, to like stop, stop doing that, go like go make art your time as much better spent making your art than making frames, leave the frame, making up to the FrameMaker and um, see that too.
David Horowitz (34:36):
Like our, our name Goldie frame makers is like, you know, again, it’s a picture frame shot, but we’re not just picture framers. Like we actually, you know, are making this like some, a lot of times you go to a frame shop and they can’t even like make you a frame deeper if you want it deeper. Not, not to mention like, you know, oh, you like the three inch frame. We’ll just make it at five inches. Well, let’s cool. We’ll just like, you know, shape it by hand and carve it that way. That’s no big deal. Um, money permitting. Of course there’s a there’s anything can be accomplished again, if you’re willing to, uh, invest in the, in the artists and services that we offer. so
Anne Kelly (35:13):
Right. I think a lot of times people think of like, okay, I bought the art and then, and then the frame is, is kind of almost goes into the shipping category where it’s a thing. People don’t wanna spend the money on necessarily, but I think it’s just understanding what all is involved and
David Horowitz (35:29):
Right, right. And a lot of like a lot of galleries and stuff that we work with will do they’ll, you know, if they’re dealing in old paintings and stuff from 150 years ago, 200 years ago, whatever the good galleries, what they do is they actually have everything restored or conserved by a painting conservator say, and then, uh, and then have it reframed so that it looks its best. And that it’s showing as much of the painting as can be seen and that it all is fit in the frame properly. Or if it it’s paper that it’s all archival and stuff. And then those galleries will sell the art that way. And like those galleries are the ones that make more money than any of the other galleries, uh, because like the, the actual consumer they’re already paying for it. And I, and I deal with both people.
David Horowitz (36:11):
I have galleries and I have people that, that buy from the galleries that also buy from me for other X and stuff too. And they are completely understanding of the fact that like, they don’t have to do anything when they get the, you know, they, they buy a, they buy a piece and it’s framed and it’s archival and it’s, and it’s like ready to go. It’s been conserved. And there’s no question about whether or not they’re gonna have a problem with the surface down the line and stuff, cuz you know, high end artists really, really, um, expensive again. That’s where, that’s where we come in. I always say that we, we at least live in the, uh, in the basement of the king anyway, the, the FrameMaker who’s called to court to uh, you know,
Anne Kelly (36:56):
So, so working at gold, if you get to see a lot of art, do you have a particular, like a favorite type of art or a favorite artist you’ve also built up kind of a, you’ve built up an art collection. Do you have a favorite piece that you own as part of your collection?
David Horowitz (37:14):
Well, geez. I have so many, I have so much art that I own. No, I guess I see a lot of art. So I, I have a lot of things that I can just, I have the ability to like touch and poke around and do all this stuff and say like, oh, I like this one thing. And I don’t like something else. I’m also like kind of an opinionated person. So it makes it easier for me to say that, but you know, a lot of it. See you rolling. Bye bye.
Anne Kelly (37:35):
Thanks. Thank you.
David Horowitz (37:38):
You’re welcome. where was I? Oh yeah, a lot of, um, the difficulty I had with the gallery was like selling art because art sales can be so arbitrary. Like why is something valued a certain way when something else isn’t or I mentioned that earlier with somebody who has a sentimental piece of their families, like mm-hmm, why is valued less than, you know, a Picasso or whatever, which of course like some of that’s ridiculous. Some artists are just amazing and I’ve done stuff that nobody else has ever done. Like I was just looking at Achu and it was an artist that I was just turned onto and I had never seen his stuff. And maybe I just don’t know. I’ve just never, I haven’t heard of this guy he’s, you know, mid thirties or whatever. Really cool, cool painter. And um, I mean, obviously this guy is not like some nobody guy, but you know, I, I find artists like that all the time that I’m just like fascinated with what comes in here and so much of the time that somebody that nobody’s ever heard of.
David Horowitz (38:39):
So I just kinda, I go with, I like it if I like it. And when it comes to like obtaining art, I do when I can. And when it comes to inheriting art, I have a whole frame shot with since 1988, people have been leaving miscellaneous, uh, uh, paper pieces, or I have a giant, uh, painting of Buffalo grazing in a field that hangs in my dining room in my house because somebody like tried to pay their bill with it back in 1991. So I’ve got no, I’ve got no shortage of too much stuff to look at around here. So
Anne Kelly (39:13):
Is, are there, there, um, any artists who you hope to one day obtain a piece by maybe somebody that just really speaks to you, but hasn’t happened yet?
David Horowitz (39:28):
I mean like, okay. Let me think about like something that’s in, it could
Anne Kelly (39:31):
Be anybody cause we’re just like, it could be
David Horowitz (39:34):
The realm of like, I love my, but I think that that’s like probably like a bit far out there. No, I mean, one of the, one of the more recent, uh, things with that though too, was, was the artist that you represent, uh, over at photo I, which is Ruben woo, who I really liked his, his photographs, he needed frames and I was framing him, him for you. And then I traded him frames to frame, to put in the gallery. So at least being a FrameMaker, it’s like, uh, I’ve got something to barter for the most part. And usually when it comes to like local people and stuff like that, there’s, there’s usually a way to find, to find something and work it out. They like the old school, uh, hand carving and gilding picture or frames like the barter. System’s really nice for
Anne Kelly (40:19):
That. Why is there, is there a, a current soundtrack at the Goldleaf Frame shop? Like what’s everybody listening to there now? Is that like a collaborative thing or are people listening to their own music?
David Horowitz (40:31):
Um, it depends. It depends what I did on that front though, which is pretty exciting here. I’ll take another one. I can show you this is that, uh, I just decided recently to start a parallel record collection for the shop. Cool. And I have a pile of boxes in front of it at the moment because dealing with stashing a bunch of art, but they’re new, new shop, new shop vinyl. Um, and yeah, we’ve been, uh, yeah, just going around, collecting it SL uh, has, has a record buying Abbot that he’s, I think he’s pretty much addicted to buying some, to addicted, to buying vinyl at this point. So he’s constantly going over there and then he’ll, he’ll slip stuff into, into my crate here. Oh yeah. So he’s Frank Zappa though too. Also, if you go over to, um, geez, what’s the name of Georgia’s shop Las Padre’s records over in Solana center, you’ll see some framed, uh, band posters and stuff in there that were all done, uh, out of this place.
David Horowitz (41:35):
And, uh, again, like I was talking about the barter system earlier, you know, that’s where I got my, my Beyonce album, um, which is one of the few that has actually come. One is the, which is one of the few albums, I guess. And maybe that’s a good one. That’s been on my head a lot lately that has come from my house and ended up at the shop in the shop bucket. Cuz mostly I’m just trying to, trying to, there you go. Herp Albert’s Tijuana brass trying to do that. Oh yeah. See like this is, this one goes back though, too, having a shared stereo, growing up with a bunch of old, uh, punk rockers and stuff. When I was a teenager, like turned me onto a lot of bands, like Fugazi, like not the Beatles. I guess I had already heard the Beatles, uh, was a Bobby D uh, nobody wants to listen to the Jay Isles band, but you know,
Anne Kelly (42:25):
, I’m so glad I asked.
David Horowitz (42:28):
Yes. See, I had a whole show. I had a whole show and tell there. No, actually, um, sharing music though has been like a bit, a big part of this place, especially it used to be now we’ve got four, four stereos. I wanna say now that this is, uh, we’re in, in um, 7,500 square feet. Oh look, if I stand right here, then I have a halo over my, there we go. and in a weird little chair of things, see now and Hank and some bullets. Okay. There we go. See know like no matter where you look in this building though, you’ll always find fun stuff. See? Oh wait, no, no, no. I’ve got, oh wait, which way do I go? Oh, there we go. The AK 47 halo. Yeah.
Anne Kelly (43:07):
So you got a lot. There’s a lot of Marty, a lot of Marty art.
David Horowitz (43:10):
There’s a lot of Marty. This is one of my favorites. That’s the shroud off a nuclear warhead right there, the gold plated thing in the background next to the, uh, Shriners cap and the, uh, and the hand grenades. Um, but yeah, there’s a whole bunch of just, you know, like I was saying before, like when I need a new piece of art, I don’t need to look very far, you know, cuz there’s just paintings everywhere.
Anne Kelly (43:34):
You are surrounded by it and, and how surrounded by everything, anybody. Yeah. Or I don’t know if you love art and you’re surrounded by, right?
David Horowitz (43:43):
No, this is the, uh, you know, the best, the best place to work if you love art. Nice. So we should have some examples here. See like this, this frame is actually, you can see how that is raised off the surface. I think that’s coming through. Yeah. Um, that’s uh, this is an Italian technique called Siglia and what we do is we mix the Jesso with honey and paint it onto the wood before we apply the Jesso and the honey actually, for whatever reason makes the, uh, suggests JSO extra hard. And it, then it stands up through the, the JSO being applied on top of it. And you can see the design that you painted on underneath it. So that’s like really cool old Cresty old techniques, some more Castiglia. If you get a focus, there we go. And you can see, and then actually in this area, in between, we’ve gone through with a little punch and a hammer and hammered in that texture to make it so yeah. Yeah, no. So these, these, these are really fun. The older and gross, it was like, so you can imagine this frame here is hung next to a fireplace for, you know, a couple hundred years and you’ve got the crack lore and the surface and you’ve got the CRE. So sitting in all the lows and everything. So, you know, you have to have fun and you have to tell yourself the, tell yourself the stories and go through the journey with the frame, you know, cause again, it’s art.
Anne Kelly (45:17):
David Horowitz (45:19):
And the only, the next step would be to actually go like Rob old European barns of their wood. And then you can carve it into the old Barnwood mm-hmm and then you can really, you can really start to sell some expensive frames. Then we had an art smuggler and forger in here one day. Who’s trying to tell me how to, uh, fake carbon tests by baking pigments. Wow. he could say, well, that’s really cool to know. He was really complimentary of our crack Jesso, but I was like, but we make, you know, reproduction frames, like we’re, you know, you look at the back of one of our frames and it says what year it was carved. Um so yeah, we’re not trying to not trying to fool anybody all
Anne Kelly (45:59):
You’re able to replicate, but you’re not trying to rip anybody
David Horowitz (46:03):
Off. We’re not trying to say that. Yeah. Yeah. This is a real, this is a real Italian frame.
Anne Kelly (46:09):
You, you, you never know who’s gonna walk in some days,
David Horowitz (46:12):
Right. To speak with the Italian accent.
Anne Kelly (46:16):
Yeah. And, and your dad, Marty. He did he start listen, New York or in Santa Fe? Originally
David Horowitz (46:24):
It was in New York. He had started, uh, the company was called Rothman and Horowitz and it was with his old mentor who taught him how to make the high end frames back in the seventies. So he had done that for a while. Then he ran a bunch of large operations in New York city. Then he, uh, then he did other stuff for for a little bit. Then he, he started working at, uh, with his old mentor, uh, right around the time I was. And, and, and you know, for a few years, I, it was five years or something like that in New York. So he had gotten sick though. He had pneumonia. So like the old tuberculosis days, he was sent out by the doctors to New Mexico so that he could like dry out his lungs and breathe again. And then that’s how my family was here and yeah, my dad, it was 88. So I was three, my brother was six or seven and my sister was gonna be born like a year later. They just were like, Nope, go to Santa Fe. So,
Anne Kelly (47:29):
Well, I think historically a lot of people moved to Santa Fe for that reason. Yeah.
David Horowitz (47:35):
Oh yeah. Yeah, no, there was definitely between the altitude and like this summer, the really dry climate mm-hmm , not, there’s like no mold here and stuff too. He was like a mold smelling, truffle pig or something like you could . It was great. When I was buying a house and stuff too, he was like walks into a place like, oh, it’s clean. ,
Anne Kelly (47:58):
David Horowitz (48:00):
It is one sport. Yeah. He would’ve been sick. So yeah.
Anne Kelly (48:03):
Well, well he started an amazing thing and is, and, and, and you’ve kept up this tradition and it’s been so great working with both of you over the years. And where, where did you go to art school? I don’t think I know that story.
David Horowitz (48:19):
I went to the university of New Mexico and I have a degree in scenic design for TV and film and theater, the theater. I, and I didn’t realize that at the time I was kind of an undeclared major that mm-hmm, found a wood shop on the UNM campus and found a family with those weird theater folks. Mm-hmm um, that I didn’t really, yeah. I, I hadn’t realized it until later that probably the part of the attraction to working at theater was because of growing up, working at gold leaf mm-hmm like so many hands making one. I mean, not to mention just like the prce of a stage and the, the picture frame around a picture, but like so many hands working together. Cause you saw how many people are back there, even on like that’s like half the staff, you know? Yeah. Um, sometimes five or six people will touch one frame to make one single piece in putting on a production, like whether it was, you know, opera or film or whatever was all the same sort of thing.
David Horowitz (49:22):
Many people just working together for the same concept, which I find, you know, I find really cool, you know, somebody’s gotta design it, somebody at a steer, their ship, somebody’s gotta do the research, but then it makes way more sense to have every step of the way, whether it’s being carved or sanded or Giled to have the expert in that nature, just do it, you know? And that way you can actually, you can do a lot of big stuff really quicker than anybody would think was possible or a lot more things. One would think you could do. Um, because everybody’s really good at what they do while, you know, like here we try to cross train everybody so they can do everything. Um, but definitely people find their niche, you know, find the part that they’re really good at. So yeah, no
Anne Kelly (50:08):
Collaboration is, is amazing. Cuz even if somebody is cross trained and people are just gonna be better at certain aspects of it. Right.
David Horowitz (50:17):
And like I said, working with people are now in like my job as I, like, I direct people, you know, I tell ’em what to do, right. So if somebody new starts working here and it’s not, you know, me alone or whatever, it’s in conversation. But I mean like after all these years though, too, it’s like, what does cause a lot of times see people start working and they think they wanna do one thing and then they they’re better suited to do something else. And it’s weird when somebody you give somebody, oh, here’s how you make a frame. This is the whole thing. And so I showed you, you write, you know, how to make a frame. Now think that one thing seems appealing. And then when you get into it, you realize that it’s really not. Or some people they really wanna carve a frame, but you know, they’re not, that’s not where their, their, their talent lies.
David Horowitz (51:00):
And it’s funny too, because like the frames, I guess find their people or we, you know, people find their own part of whatever it is. They do the best they do it. And I dunno, some of it’s like, okay, well we don’t have a Guilder somebody needs to, you know, step up and be the Guilder or whatever. But a lot of it just kind of happens and has to happen over over years and sometimes, you know, decades and you know, people start working here and we, we just immediately write off the, for the, for six months. It’s like, okay, well, try to figure out how to sand Jesso. see if you can actually get a surface to accept gold appropriately. And in the meantime, we’ll try to, we’ll try to see what, what skills you’ve got and what you’re good at, and we’ll throw stuff at you and we’ll see where you end up and what we need and what you’re, you know, what you’re willing to try to do.
David Horowitz (51:51):
So it’s really kind of cool the way that yeah. It’s like the master apprentice sort of thing, but it, it just has to happen. And a lot of people though, too, will get a lot of people, right. Outta school and stuff. And they think it’s like signing up for picture frame class like, oh, Jesso semester is done now. Now is it time to take carving? It’s like, right. It’s like, no, no, this is a, this is a business that we need to, you know, actually pay everybody. So that’s, that’s the reality of it at the end of the day is like, you know, to do something like this and to make it a business, you have to be able to draw that line. And it’s, yeah, it’s tough sometimes, but that’s what makes it what it is.
Anne Kelly (52:35):
Yeah. It’s being in an artistic medium and running a business. And, and speaking of, um, episode three of art in the raw, who is with my buddy, Greg Robertson, who’s a stone sculptor. And, um, he has a background in theater as well. So I think you might enjoy that one and this one, and then this one hasn’t aired yet. But my, my friend, Nicole IY, Coney she’s in Dallas right now. She’s working in the theater right now as a lighting designer and, and technician, where’s she at? Yeah. She’s at the Dallas theater center they’re working on right now, an adaptation of, of a Christmas Carol. So we filmed an episode about that the other day and that’s gonna be out in a few weeks. Um, but, but the crazy thing about that is, is so she’s been in the theater business for over 20 years, but this is the first ever production where they’re actually creating it with the purpose of streaming it. Huh. Interesting. Because of we’re all adapting and you know, we’ve got that drive in movie theater that, um, have you, have you checked out any of those
David Horowitz (53:49):
Yet? No, I have a really nice couch.
Anne Kelly (53:52):
yeah. I, I went to one it’s kinda fun.
David Horowitz (53:59):
I don’t know. And I’ll see now, like now that I’m looking outside and it’s snowing, it’s really like the thought of staying at home to me. Nice. Like in the winter I love the snow. And I said, we’ve been fortunate because we’ve had to brave our gold leaf bubble to be with people. So at least I get to see people on a regular basis cuz we can’t be doing what we’re doing back there remotely, cuz we’re all working together on one frame. So we try it when we were shut down, we had people working remotely and we were moving, we were transporting and, and a pickup truck and we were bringing stuff in, bringing stuff out and like, um, that kind of, it worked for shutting down for the virus. But now that we’re busy, again, it just is not, you know, it’s not conducive because there, we had like a shut down plan. Now we’re trying to be busy because for a lot of reasons we need to stay and in business. So yeah. Keep
Anne Kelly (54:48):
Everybody they have,
David Horowitz (54:51):
They have medical grade, uh, masks and stuff available again. Great. Which I felt bad cuz I didn’t have any the right safety equipment for a while. I hope that we learn. I hope we learn something from all of this. I hope there’s still a strong demand for me and my artists and fellows. I don’t know. You know, obviously the theater is really tricky, anything like that. I have a feeling that they’ll be able to figure out as far as film goes, a way to make that, that, that sort of stuff viable. Yeah. Cause part of the beauty of the theater is going to the theater. Right. But yeah. I don’t know, long, scary winter. I’m glad that you’re entertainment for people to watch
Anne Kelly (55:30):
Well basically I just wanna keep everybody inspired is, is kind of my, my
David Horowitz (55:36):
Yeah, no. And um, I don’t know if I can do my part and keep us here and at least keep us, we’ll keep us safe, but keep us like making frames and, and staying in business and stuff like that too. You knows we all weather the weather, the storm. So
Anne Kelly (55:51):
Yeah. We’ve gotta stay inspired, connected and all of that before I let you go, cuz you’ve still gotta drive home and it’s it’s snowing, which I do. I’m all I’m all about, um, you it’s, so we we’re talking about entertainment and how much you enjoy hanging out on the couch at home. Do you, do you have a favorite movie, a current favorite movie all time. Favorite movie?
David Horowitz (56:21):
Uh, well, one of my favorites that I just revisited, which was a fantastic experience was iHeart Huckaby. So I do love, I do love that movie. It’s very, very funny. I haven’t seen it. You haven’t seen iHeart Huckaby. Okay. See it. There we go. See, this is why you’re asking. You’re just asking this well, no, I’m, I’m gonna take a break before the editing big. You can. Yeah,
Anne Kelly (56:43):
No, I’m gonna create actually a suggested movie list from, from all the guests of art in the raw I don’t know why not
David Horowitz (56:51):
okay. Yeah. So definitely I heard HKI be, um, I, my all time favorite movie is, uh, it’s it’s Jurassic park, I think. Cuz I pro because I watched Jura at least twice a year. So it’s gotta, I mean, huh?
Anne Kelly (57:09):
Part one. No. Oh yeah. The first one. There’s so many. Which Jurassic park
David Horowitz (57:13):
You want that movie for fun? No, it’s
Anne Kelly (57:15):
well, I assume, but there’s like seven jurasic parks at this point.
David Horowitz (57:22):
Only the first one only the first one pounds ski old classic Spielberg back when an hour and a half movie was an hour and a half. I mean back back when, back when a movie was an hour and a half and you didn’t have to, I have like, like I said, I have a really nice couch. I have a problem, uh, falling asleep on my couch. mm-hmm mm-hmm so I gotta be able to make it through, make it through ’em but yep. Character development, conflict, man. Action. Uh, beautiful, uh, spectacles.
Anne Kelly (57:54):
Well, thank you so much, David, for joining me tonight and, and for your whole crew that was available to show us what they’re doing and everything. And for everybody watching, keep the conversation going, please like comment, subscribe, tell your friends and um, stay tuned, suggested movie list from creative people. Cause right on that, wasn’t something I intended to make. Um, I’m gonna write it down and I’m gonna it because you know, a lot of ice you’re you’re at home hanging out on the couch and it’s hard to decide what, what you’re gonna watch. Well, um, careful driving home in the snow. Yeah. David,
David Horowitz (58:36):
It looks pretty clear out there. I think we’ll be all right.
Anne Kelly (58:39):
Just the snow for a few days now. Thank you. Thank you. Um, and cheers. I’ll see you soon. Cheer
David Horowitz (58:48):
Anne Kelly (58:50):
Others. Is that Slade behind you?
David Horowitz (58:52):
Anne Kelly (58:54):
Cheer SL all right. Well have a good night and, and thanks for all. And we’ll talk soon. All right. Talk
David Horowitz (59:01):
Soon. Okay. Bye.
Anne Kelly (59:03):
Bye. Bye. So we’re gilding a drink.
David Horowitz (59:18):
Yep. For cocktail hour is 23 karat gold made in the USA or at least beaten into little squares in the USA. So this gold here is one, 250000th of an inch thin. There we go. Yeah.
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