Jeffrey Pitt | TATTOOING & PAINTING: Ancient Art Forms

Speaker 1 (00:00:13):

This is art in the raw. I’m your host and Kelly. Our guest today is Jeffrey Pitt. He’s an artist and he’s working in the mediums of acrylic painting as well as tattooing. Thanks for joining us today, Jeffrey. 

Speaker 2 (00:00:28):

Thanks for having me. 

Speaker 1 (00:00:30):

And where are you today? 

Speaker 2 (00:00:32):

I am in the office space of my lovely wife Alexandra’s home. And, uh, like I said, just had some dinner and I, here I am. I’m in your backyard. 

Speaker 1 (00:00:43):

Yes, we’re all in my backyard. You’re working as a tattoo artist and then you also make these really amazing paintings as well. That’s, that’s my opinion. What came first? 

Speaker 2 (00:00:57):

I’ve always been an artist of sorts. You know, when I was a kid, I was the kid that was doing the drawing and the painting and the creative stuff out of my group of friends. I was always like the, uh, the talented one of the crew, I guess I needed to be anything needed to be drawn or realize with a painting or anything else. They always picked me to do it. So I was always designing things and then doing like t-shirt designs, flyer designs for my friend’s bands had a pretty good, um, art program in high school. Actually, I was pretty fortunate, actually had an advanced placement program in high school, which led to, uh, a scholarship to art school, which I did and in Baltimore. So, you know, I’ve been in art school and, and, and getting creative in that way, my whole life. It wasn’t until I was midway through my twenties. When I, um, kind of discovered tattooing, I had a few tattoos, but I became friends with tattooers at that time. So this would have been late nineties and eventually that friendship lasted or ended up in an apprenticeship. And, uh, I’ve been in professional tattoos since 2001. So it’s been 19 years. I’ve always been creative. I’ve always been, you know, like I said, an artist of sorts, but the tattooing came later in life. The tattooing is my livelihood. 

Speaker 1 (00:02:14):

I think when you’re creative, you’re just creative. That’s something I’ve been getting a lot of thought too recently, once you really tune into it. It’s, I mean, maybe there is some mediums you’re, you’re more skilled at than others, but, but it’s just kind of there. So, and then you grew up on the east coast, is that right? 

Speaker 2 (00:02:33):

I did. I was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland, and I went to art school there. And as soon as I finished school, I came out west well about a year or two after I came out west and I had a friend, two friends that lived out here and just came through to visit them in the mid nineties. And, uh, then I, I was just kind of so enchanted by it would use that word And came back and, and, and, uh, never left. I mean, I I’ve come and gone quite a few times since I moved here the first time in the mid nineties, Santa Fe and the spring of 96 and I’ve come and gone a few times, but, uh, it’s been my home base ever since. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:20):

And where did you go to art school? I 

Speaker 2 (00:03:22):

Went to the Maryland Stu college of art. It’s also known as Micah. It’s really a good school. It’s an old school, really good painting school. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:31):

And was that your focus in college painting 

Speaker 2 (00:03:36):

Illustration. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:38):

Okay. 

Speaker 2 (00:03:40):

Although I wonder if there’s a tattoo course there now. I wouldn’t be surprised. 

Speaker 1 (00:03:47):

I mean, a lot of people, I mean, not necessarily a lot of people I went to art school was specifically, but I mean, there’s a lot of amazing artists who’ve gone to art school that are in, are now tattooing as a living and it makes a lot of sense. Um, 

Speaker 2 (00:04:02):

And that’s, it’s, um, you know, even as short, a time as 15, 20 years ago, when I started tattooing, there was, that was like the first generation of, of art school graduates that were becoming tattooers. And there was a few before that we weren’t the first, but likely if you got tattooed and, you know, say the seventies, eighties, it certainly wasn’t by an art school graduate. It was more by like, you know, more of an outlaw biker type scene. You know what I mean? 

Speaker 1 (00:04:30):

Yeah, yeah. Or you were maybe possibly a biker or a sailor or, 

Speaker 2 (00:04:36):

Yeah, I mean, there was some artists doing tattoos in the seventies and eighties, but very few, you know, kids are graduating from art school and becoming tattooers, which just did not happen. So now it’s a career option, which is kind of, it’s kind of amazing, but it’s kind of surprising to me because I’ve sort of been around him for that long, you know? 

Speaker 1 (00:04:59):

Yeah. I mean, there, there needs to be more ways for artists to make a living actually creating art. I mean, I don’t know if, um, when you were in art school, I also went to art school. That was one of those things where it’s not that I wasn’t thinking about it at all when I was in art school, but it wasn’t maybe until some point in my senior year where I really started thinking, what was I actually going to do with degree? What was I going to do next year? 

Speaker 2 (00:05:26):

Um, like most high school students, when I finished school, I started working in restaurants and bars and whatever, you know, I would do freelance stuff here and there, you know, but I never, I never got a job in graphics or anything like that. You know, I was more into the fine art scene. And so it was like, maybe I’d have a little show, maybe I’d sell a painting or two, but I was working in kitchens and restaurants to, to make it, you know, until I discovered tattooing. So it was, I wasn’t sure if I was going to have a career in art, to be honest. 

Speaker 1 (00:06:01):

I mean, I’m kind of glad at a certain point that when I did choose to go to art school that I just went and wasn’t too hung up on what I was going to do about it, because I think it’s that, I mean, not that no one should have a plan, but I think fear can keep us from doing that. We’ll want to do so. Just being kind of young enough to just say, Hey, I’m going to art school and, um, not be too hung up on what’s happening later is like a thing. 

Speaker 2 (00:06:28):

Where did you go to school? 

Speaker 1 (00:06:30):

That’s actually what brought me to Santa Fe. I went to the College of Santa Fe.  I was done in 98 and never left. There were no tattooing courses at the College of Santa Fe. 

Speaker 2 (00:06:48):

The tuning has been, has been great for me because it enables me to make a living creatively. And it involves the skill set that I’ve always had even as a kid, which was focusing on these meticulous little handcrafted designs, which is basically what tattooing is. And so it was almost like it was, uh, almost felt like tattooing was made for me in my, in my ability is as a creative person, you know? 

Speaker 1 (00:07:20):

Well, you mentioned illustration, that was part of something you were studying in college. So I mean, that that’s got to be, I would think really helpful in tattooing. 

Speaker 2 (00:07:31):

Absolutely. You know, and I said, not to date myself, but when I was in art school, they were just starting with like the Adobe workshop and they were just bringing in all the, you know, the computers and doing graphics and stuff. And I was really turned off by that. And, you know, I, I was, it was into graphics and illustration, but I certainly wasn’t into, you know, like a graphic designer, you know, it just didn’t, it was just an exciting me, even though I think I did have, I did have the skillset to do that. I didn’t have the passion for it, but I did have that, you know, exposure to it. And I think mixed with, like, I find our background with the, a really good art program I had in high school, just kind of blended in sort of, I don’t know, I’ve always had that sort of illustrated aspect even to my paintings, you know, even to certainly to tattooing cause that’s what tattooing is illustration on skin. So it’s, it’s done me well and certainly, well, 

Speaker 1 (00:08:28):

So let’s show a few, um, paintings leading up into tattoos if everybody an idea here. Um, let’s see. So I love this painting. Tell us about this painting. 

Speaker 2 (00:08:47):

Well, along with painting and graphics, I love to take photographs as most artists do. I don’t think there’s any creative artists or any, any painter that doesn’t also enjoy taking photographs. So I collect whenever I, I feel like I’ve taken a good photograph, you know, I collected, I stash it away and I do that constantly and constantly taking photos mainly with my iPhone. Um, just because it’s, I always have it, it’s always in my pocket much to my wife’s dismay. Sometimes she’s like put away your phone, but you know, I’m constantly cashing these images and I, and I like to work from photographs just because it’s, it’s way more convenient, obviously. Um, but this is a photo that I took in truth of consequences, New Mexico, I guess, about three years ago. I just love this little motel. I think it’s, uh, I think it’s abandoned. I don’t think it’s in business anymore, but I’m not positive, but it’s on this little side street off the main, just one of the main streets and truth or consequences. And it’s just this great little, uh, piece of Americana that I managed to photograph. So when I photographed it, I knew I was going to paint in one day and I think it took me a couple of years to finally get around to painting it. And that’s how it came about. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:03):

Do you know, um, if you don’t know, um, photographer, Steve Fitch, his work he’s been photographing different motels kind of off route 66 other places for the past 40 some years or so. So I’m going to text you a link to his work. I think you would just enjoy his work. And then the other thing I have to ask you live in Santa Fe as well. Is, does this not remind you a little bit of the facade of the John Cocteau theater? 

Speaker 2 (00:10:32):

It does. And you know, I hadn’t thought about it, but I totally agree with you. Absolutely does. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:36):

Like when I saw that, I almost wondered if it was inspired by that 

Speaker 2 (00:10:40):

It was not. And I have to be honest, I, until this moment, I hadn’t thought about that, but now that you say it, I can absolutely see that. 

Speaker 1 (00:10:49):

I think it might be the same. I don’t know. I mean, maybe it’s the same era. I was going to say it, it almost feels like it could be a photograph, but then there’s little aspects like the clouds, but make it clear that this is a painting, not a photograph. 

Speaker 2 (00:11:04):

It was just before that, you know, that sort of magic hour in New Mexico where everything is just quiet and the light is just so intense and, um, everything just kind of glows. And 

Speaker 1 (00:11:17):

I think that light is part of what keeps artists in New Mexico. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (00:11:23):

Yeah, absolutely. And, um, so that’s when I took it and I, like I said, as soon as I snapped that photo, I was like, I’m going to paint that one day. And I have the thing is I don’t pay nearly as much as I’d like to obviously, and I’m sure that’ll change as I get older, but I have so many, I worked from photographs. I would love to do some plain air stuff. I haven’t in years, probably since soon, little after college, but, um, I enjoy landscapes, but I usually work from border just because of the convenience of it. And I have dozens of photos saved that I promised myself I would, I would paint one day. So I’ve already get busy. 

Speaker 1 (00:12:05):

I mean, it’s a good way to work. I mean, not to say that you’re not, but you weren’t gonna bust out a, a canvas right there on the street on that particular day. Probably not. So this one feels kind of San Francisco to me, 

Speaker 2 (00:12:21):

I’m actually not even close, but the architecture may be similar. It’s actually a historic street of homes in Baltimore, south Baltimore, 

Speaker 1 (00:12:32):

Baltimore. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (00:12:35):

There’s, there’s some really interesting, uh, colonial type architecture there. Um, we refer to them as row homes, but they exist all over the east coast, but Baltimore has sort of its own sort of admiration and love for these, these row homes. I pretty much grew up in them, although I wasn’t raised in one, my, all my family lived in these little, oh, this is actually a detail from a painting I did of a row of a street of row homes in south Baltimore, again from a photo that I took years prior. And, and um, I think I said to myself, the same thing that I’m going to paint that one day and I did so that the painting itself is just kind of a skewed angle of the street with a lot of the more historic streets, the ones that are kept up pretty well, they all have these different colored facades either. 

Speaker 2 (00:13:30):

They’re usually painted brick. So, um, this one had like, you know, it was like a row of 10 homes maybe, and they were all painted differently, really cool photo, but this is just a detail from the painting of the photo. So I don’t know, I’m kind of attracted to cityscapes for some reason. I do like to paint figurative stuff. And you know, one of the things I included was a painting of our dog, you know, I like to paint structures and, and um, some landscapes, this was just a quick, uh, quarantine to study painting of, of Laila, which originally was from inspired from a photograph. But I did most of that, honestly, um, from, uh, just from painting from life, cause she was laying on this blanket. Um, original, the original photograph was a little bit different position. Her ears were in a different position. So I sort of borrowed from the photograph, but I sort of finished it, um, from a life study of her. It’s a small painting, just like a nine by 12. 

Speaker 1 (00:14:38):

Well, I know this dog and it looks just like, so 

Speaker 2 (00:14:44):

It’s kind of hard enough to get a likeness of her she’s so she’s almost like a cartoon, a living cartoon. 

Speaker 1 (00:14:50):

So photo kind of, I mean, it’s, I wouldn’t really call it photorealistic painting because no, you can see the brush strokes, but I 

Speaker 2 (00:14:59):

Mean, it’s still a very realistic depict depiction of, of the dog. So I, I mean, as a, as a painter, I’m certainly more attracted to, I guess what we would call impressionism, but uh, you know, somewhere in the middle, I guess, you know, I, I do enjoy a good, realistic still life that’s for sure. But, um, I do like to see some, some nice brushstrokes in there. I’m not a hundred percent like chasing that realism, but uh, I like to see a little bit of movement with paint, you know, 

Speaker 1 (00:15:39):

And you, and you see that in well of the three paintings. We’re looking at UC that in all of those paintings, whether it be a building or your dog. So, I mean, definitely seeing a style, 

Speaker 2 (00:15:51):

I definitely have to build up the pain. I usually work with brushes, but I’ll, I’ll do some, some pallet knife stuff in there to sort of build up that, that texture. 

Speaker 1 (00:16:01):

And have you always worked in acrylic as far as painting goes, 

Speaker 2 (00:16:04):

And again, it’s been that transition over the years. It’s just been from convenience, you know, like living in little apartments in Santa Fe and, and, uh, not wanting to like, you know, smell up the place or 

Speaker 1 (00:16:18):

Was in 

Speaker 2 (00:16:19):

The house and, you know, 

Speaker 1 (00:16:21):

Not forever to dry. 

Speaker 2 (00:16:25):

And there’s a lot of, um, yeah, oil is way more toxic, but there’s a lot of pros to oil painting, which is hard to achieve with acrylic. It’s a lot easier with oil, but, um, again, it’s just a matter of convenience. It’s always been way easier for me to sort of be able to produce some little acrylic paintings and not make too much of a mess too much of a, you know, so that really was the, the reason that I transitioned from all through college and our high school, even, I always worked boils. In fact, it’s been, it’s been years since I worked in oils. Maybe I should revisit that. 

Speaker 1 (00:17:06):

I mean, I remember, I mean, when I was at the college of Santa Fe, they had actually eliminated a lot of the oil painting classes. Um, cause they were worried about the toxicity and, and it is kind of actually this interesting. So I’ve been geeking out on random historical information since I started the show. Um, so I looked this up before our conversation and, um, oil painting actually dates all the way back to the seventh century, a D whereas acrylic paint didn’t really become commonly available on the market until the fifties. Wow. So I’d never really thought about it like this before. It’s almost like, I mean, not to say that acrylic paint is, is digital product that was introduced more recently that’s maybe has at the benefits of it dries faster. You could paint in your living room without worrying about harming your family members. 

Speaker 2 (00:18:07):

Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s really where I’m at with it and it’s just a matter of, yeah, I love, I love oil. I love the way they smell. I love the feeling of the different texture of the paint and in that, um, you never quite get it that same finish. I don’t feel with acrylics that you can with oil and I’m just more challenging. Blending colors is more difficult with acrylic. Um, 

Speaker 1 (00:18:33):

Well, because it dries so quickly. 

Speaker 2 (00:18:35):

Yeah. You really have to, to be on top of it. If you’re trying to, especially if you’re like trying to produce like realistic paintings, you really have to, it’s a whole new learning process, I think because John is so fast. 

Speaker 1 (00:18:52):

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there’s kind of that romanticized idea. Um, like in conversations I’ve had recently with DJs kind of vinyl to digital and obviously photography and just kind of started looking at the dates, um, with acrylic versus oil earlier, it’s kind of like, oh, that’s interesting 

Speaker 2 (00:19:15):

There even thought about anything is ancient. It’s crazy. 

Speaker 1 (00:19:20):

Well, and that’s the other thing, interesting thing I’ve been thinking of a lot about a lot too recently is just most of the creative things we engage in these days, whether it be music, art, making, whatever it, most of them date back as far as humans do for the most part, which I mean, I guess shouldn’t be surprising, but when you just start looking at the history of certain things, it’s like, oh Yeah. So speaking of, 

Speaker 2 (00:19:54):

Oh, 

Speaker 1 (00:19:55):

One of your tattoos. Yes. So that is a, is that a Luna moth? 

Speaker 2 (00:20:02):

That’s a very good guess and actually thought the same thing as, you know, as always it’s an Atlas mom and it’s, um, I don’t know if you know much about Atlas mobs, but they are huge. They’re the biggest moth I think in the world, pretty certain about that. And, um, supposedly they only live, they live less than a week, which I find hard to believe, but, um, they have this amazing feature where the tips of their upper wings mimic the heads of snakes. Yeah. And if you look at images of them, if you look at an actual photograph where the Atlas mall tips of their wings look a lot like snake heads and that deters birds from eating them and attacking them, which is amazing. 

Speaker 2 (00:20:59):

Yeah. They actually, the supposedly that, you know, the, their, their per their predators actually feel that they’re snakes because they have this, uh, built-in um, I guess camouflage, or I don’t know what the word would be for when one Adam will mimics another, but it’s pretty amazing. Like, nature’s pretty awesome. So good example of that. So this is just an outline of a pretty big piece, as you can see, one of my coworkers and, um, good friend of mine, Sarah Cornell, who’s actually another tattooer in town. And, um, she has been wanting to get this depiction of an Atlas moth where the, or the wings are actually morphing into two actual snake heads. 

Speaker 1 (00:21:46):

I actually didn’t even notice the snake had there on the right and 

Speaker 2 (00:21:51):

Do a lot of times when I, when I, um, you know, especially on Instagram and stuff, when I photograph or, or I take little videos of my tattoos, because a lot of them, you can’t capture the whole image from a still shot. So, um, if you go onto my Instagram, you’ll see a video of this and, you know, you’ll see both sides of it. And the other side is turning into a snake too. And it’s, um, it’s pretty cool. That was a really fun piece, as you can see, it’s not does is just the outline. I wanted to include it because it’s probably one, one of the most recent tattoos I’ve done and it’s so cool. Yeah. We just outlined it, I think, uh, not even a week ago, five, six days ago. So, um, yeah, so that’s the outline. And what we’ll do is we’ll add quite a bit of, uh, black shading and a little bit of color, not too much, but, um, it’s going to be a pretty, pretty awesome piece. 

Speaker 1 (00:22:46):

It’s gotta be a painful area. I can’t help to think about that. 

Speaker 2 (00:22:51):

Well, first off, all tattoos hurt. I mean, there’s no, there’s no tattoo that that’s not really annoying to get. Um, but certainly ones on the front of your torso are notoriously the worst. Um, just because, you know, places where one might actually be ticklish or, you know, it’s just a really sensitive spot. So stomach Sternum, ribs, all the areas is the worst. Most people would agree 

Speaker 2 (00:23:25):

That one was a little adaptation of this. Uh, I believe it’s an Indonesian mask and, um, we sorta, she wanted it to include, uh, these poppy flowers. Cause I think she’s from California and the sunflower at the top. So we basically took an image of a, or an actual photograph of this. I think it’s Indonesia where these masks are. I don’t know much about the masks. I’ve seen them quite a bit, but I just thought it was an interesting piece. Another one I’ve done recently and I’m sort of incorporated this one is, is she just wanted line work, which is kind of like a new phenomenon and tech phenomenon in tattooing where it’s like less is more nowadays. Like most people aren’t getting like these full color pieces so much anymore. It’s just about the line work. And we do a lot of like stippling tattoos nowadays, what we call.work. And it’s more about just the pattern and the lines more so than like shading and color. We did a little bit of a Mandalah motif, which is very popular nowadays. And they’re sort of, 

Speaker 1 (00:24:36):

This was a collaboration between you and the client. I mean, that, that kind of goes back and forth where, I mean, I suppose sometimes people walk in and they’re like, I want exactly this thing here. Or you get a little thing 

Speaker 2 (00:24:51):

We do. You’re absolutely right. It’s all over the place. Mainly what people do is, is, well nowadays, anyway, I’ve been tattooing for 19 years nowadays when people do is they come in with pretty much what they want nailed down, but they usually have, have us tweak it a little bit to sort of put our own little stamp on it or their own little stamp on it. But like you said, it’s always a collaboration. Um, I mean, tattooing by nature is a physical aberration. There’s a lot of, uh, you know, you sort of have to hand over the trust at some point, but it’s, it’s always a collaboration. So, but yeah, I mean, it’s very rare that someone comes in and they’re like, this is what I want. Don’t change. It don’t do anything to it. I mean, it does happen, but it’s pretty rare. Most people, they want the tattoo or to, uh, to have a little bit of expression creativity, because that’s all the fun and tattooing, you know, you don’t want to, you don’t want to take the fun out of it. So, 

Speaker 1 (00:25:54):

And maybe you don’t want the, the tattoo that’s on Instagram 3000 times over and then Instagram. I mean, that’s just changed tattooing in a huge way. Hasn’t it? 

Speaker 2 (00:26:08):

Instagram, all of it, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest will always have the, uh, sort of purists client that like, um, you know, doesn’t go on Pinterest and doesn’t, doesn’t Google search what they want first. And they sort of want to just kind of generate this image or this design themselves or with me, or, or, or Kim, you know, like a collaboration, like you said, we’ll always have that too, but you know, like everything else, this generation, you know, with the social media and everything, it’s sort of like accelerated everything and just sort of like dumb things down. So the whole process of getting tattooed has changed big time. So yeah, absolutely. In a lot of ways it’s made my job easier. So I won’t complain there, but also in a lot of ways it’s, um, you know, it’s sort of siphoned a little bit of the creativity process out of it. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, it’s me, that’s putting the image on, on someone’s skin. So it’s ultimately up to me to keep the creativity there. But anyway, yeah, it’s definitely changed quite a bit. 

Speaker 1 (00:27:19):

And then there’s the tattooers who become like Instagram celebrities and people are like, oh, I want to get tattooed by this person because they have 80,000 followers. And versus, I mean, I’ve kind of observed you, you do post images on Instagram, but you don’t really strike me as that person. That’s trying to become like a famous, 

Speaker 2 (00:27:42):

Um, no for that. Um, like I said, I’ve been, I’ve been at this for quite some time. I mean, I definitely use Instagram more of my portfolio if you were to come in to see me for a tattoo 10 years ago, um, chances are, we would have met for the first time when you walked in the shop. Um, I would have handed you a book of printed photographs of my work to look at, um, you know, nowadays we’ve, by the time you make it into the shop, you’ve already scheduled the appointment. We’ve already communicated on it on Instagram. You’ve already probably found me on Instagram or maybe your friend got tattooed by me or whatever. But, um, usually that’s how people are. That’s how new clients find me in the first place is through our Instagram name. We’ll message. Each other communicate schedule. Everything is done before I even meet the person nowadays, which is so, so different than when I started. 

Speaker 2 (00:28:47):

Um, like I said, you know, the first thing let’s put it this way, when you wanted to get tattooed 10 or 15 years ago or longer, the first thing you did was you went to a tattoo shop. Even if you weren’t intending to get tattooed that day, if you were interested in getting a tattoo, you went to the tattoo shop. That’s the first thing. Yeah, that’s the person you didn’t meet the artists, look at the shop to see if it was a scary place or not. You know, now the first thing you do is you hit Google and you go Santa Fe tattooers, or, you know, Don’s custom tattoo or Jeffrey FITT tattoo, whatever it is, you know? And the last thing that happens usually is, is we actually meet and then, then the process begins there, but it’s, it’s so much different, but so is everything else, you know, we’re not 

Speaker 1 (00:29:40):

Technology 

Speaker 2 (00:29:42):

It’s amazingly. 

Speaker 1 (00:29:43):

It is tattooing. Actually it seems goes back even further than the oil painting. 

Speaker 2 (00:29:49):

It’s really believed that the first person that tripped over a stick in the campfire and poke themselves hard wood. And then a few days later we realized that that left a mark that was going to stay there forever. They were like, oh wow. You know, we could like, you know, mark ourselves with the stick. And then that was the first tattoos. So whenever that happened, that’s what that’s when tattooing was born. So I don’t think they found any civilization or any, or any remains of people from a certain time period that don’t have tattoos or, or weren’t tattooing each other or scarf vacation, or I’m pretty sure the oldest remains human remains felon. The Iceman guy had tattoos all over him. 

Speaker 1 (00:30:42):

Yeah. He had like 60 tattoos. I think I read. And they weren’t really sure what they were for. Like, they thought some of them actually might be medical. 

Speaker 2 (00:30:52):

Yeah. I read that they actual actual acupuncture points. I don’t doubt that, you know, some of them are ornamental, but I think some of them were actual points for self administered acupuncture and stuff like that. 

Speaker 1 (00:31:07):

MRO. They said you could only tattoo one thing forever. 

Speaker 2 (00:31:12):

I really enjoy doing Medusas. Um, I think that, uh, it’s not so much the subject matter, but the approach to tattooing, there’s so many different, um, for lack of a better word styles of tattooing, whereas my favorite things to do what, this is a good example of it is drawing a Medusa. I don’t just like my paintings. I really don’t enjoy doing, um, real holistic tattoos. You’ll see a lot of different types of tattooing now. And one of them nowadays is like the super hyper-realistic stuff where there’s like no real outline and everything looks really soft and realistic quote unquote. Um, my style and my favorite thing to do is definitely bold outlines. Like you’d see in this drawing, um, I love doing figurative stuff for some reason, bases, anything anatomical, certainly loved doing snakes and anything like, you know, organic like that. But as far as the approach to the tattoos, I like to do, I would just say in one word, it would be bold. 

Speaker 2 (00:32:17):

You know what? It certainly wouldn’t be soft or realistic. It would be more like this, you know, more of a traditional what we call traditional tattooing, which is, um, stems from, you know, the original application of a tattoo, which would be like a nice, bold outline, solid color, very graphic. Um, you know, tattoos originally were meant to last, you know, that’s why they were done. So crudely drawn really crudely and simple, and we’ve done really bold outlines cause they were, they were meant to last, you know, they do last and they last a little bit longer than you will. 

Speaker 1 (00:33:00):

Yeah, 

Speaker 2 (00:33:01):

Exactly. And, and, you know, attaching like everything has come a long way and crafts, you know, application side of it. But as far as what I love to do is sort of like an homage to that, the basics of, of tattooing and then kind of like pushed, pushed to, um, sort of, sort of a modern edge of what’s what’s possible, but I’d certainly do not enjoy doing like, uh, you know, I work with other tattoos and we all sort of have our own things that we like to do. Like if someone comes in and ask her a port like a realistic portrait, am I able to do something like that? I am, I don’t enjoy it. So I’ll probably pass that on to Dawn who really does enjoy it. Um, or stuff like realistic flowers or roses or realistic that I usually don’t do those tattoos. I usually pass them on to my coworkers that enjoy that stuff. I usually do more bold, bold stuff like this, this image here. 

Speaker 1 (00:34:00):

Well, and that is one of the cool elements of Instagram is that you can actually, as someone that’s looking to get tattooed, do that research, okay, this is this guy’s known for this thing. Not, I’m just going to walk into a shop and be like, Hey, do you want to do a watercolor attached to U of a, you know, and you’re like going okay, I could, but like, it’s going to last forever. So do you want somebody totally make it up or, or hope that they tell their colleague, Hey, I’ve got the tattoo for you, right? 

Speaker 2 (00:34:36):

I’m kind of glad that you have this image up here because no talking about technology and everything. If you look at this image, you’ll see that this is basically what we call a, so, which is like, if someone said, I want this Medusa tattoo, this is this tensile that I would work out and show them when we actually do the tattoos. So, you know, um, uh, what you would call old-school in my approach to stand. So making tattoo process, because I’m one of the few tattooers that actually still uses pencil and paper to, to make my stencils. I mean, a lot of the younger tattooers, I would say anyone 30 and younger, of course, of course, using iPads. You know, they look, they look at me with my little pencil on my eraser and they’re like, what are you doing? Like, 

Speaker 1 (00:35:25):

What is the analog? Yeah, 

Speaker 2 (00:35:27):

Right. It’s totally, but I don’t, um, there’s something so familiar to that with me. I don’t think I could ever make that change. Even, even though it’s at this point kind of ridiculous, not to think it would save me so much time and so much energy just working out my preliminaries and my stencils with an iPad. I just let go of the, you know, just the smell of the graphite and the, you know, my hands are all like black and from smearing the pencil that on the paper, like, I’m just like, I’m all about that. And I also collect all of my, my handmade stencils. I have thousands of them. And, um, I’ve actually recently been analoging them and putting them in books from the past, certainly from the past 15 years. So like this image here I have literally had to have at least 2000 on them. They’re all different, every possible conceivable design that you could possibly imagine. So it’s really, really cool. I have this whole library of these handmade stencils. So, 

Speaker 1 (00:36:42):

Well, I love that you bring that up because that’s one of my favorite questions to ask people is, is what they collect. I found actually a lot of people I’ve asked what they collect. They think of things that they didn’t even realize that they collect. Um, so I mean, a, I love the idea of you collecting all the stencils and be as someone that might, you know, is potentially coming in to get tattooed. I don’t know, maybe I’m old school too, but I would, I would prefer to see my artists drawn with a pencil than on an, on an iPad. I don’t know why. Um, even though, I mean, so photography is my background, so I always revert to that. And it’s like, while there’s a lot of advantages to digital photography, not having to buy the film, you can take as many pictures as you want. Your I-phones a great phone, blah, blah, blah. There’s just still something to the actual drawing on paper, instead of drawing on an iPad, reading actual book versus Kendall, I don’t know. There’s just something physical to that. So 

Speaker 2 (00:37:52):

Yeah, that’s, it’s, you know, it’s handmade and it’s, that’s, you know, 

Speaker 1 (00:37:58):

I love that you collect all of those things. And I think there might be a show on collecting and coming up at some point, because I found a few people that have some wild collections and I think we might have to go through them. 

Speaker 2 (00:38:11):

Well, I have, I have one to show you if you’re interested. For sure. In fact, I have been talking to have a friend that runs a gallery in town. Then I will show in a few paintings and, um, mostly like, uh, tattoo, uh, oriented stuff, images, but I really want to do a show. Um, there’s a lot of really good tattoos in New Mexico. I really want to do a show of, um, of those tattooers and their stencils rather, rather, cause we’ve had tattooer tattoo artist shows where we, we, we have paintings and we actually show photographs of our tattoos, but there’s something really creative and raw in this, uh, stencil making process. And they’re beautiful. They’re beautiful. And they’re so like energetic because it’s, they’re mainly just sketches. And um, I want to do a show of just stencils and trying to get that to happen and they going to be really cool. 

Speaker 1 (00:39:10):

I would love that 

Speaker 2 (00:39:12):

There’s this creative aspect about it that you can’t really fake. There’s certainly, there’s certainly, um, brilliant painters and amazing artists that are also amazing tattooers and there’s some really good tattooers that don’t pay and they don’t really make paintings or photographs or anything, um, except tattoos. So, you know, there’s everything in between, but as far as like all the really, you know, talented tattoos that I admire are also just amazing artists for really first and foremost. And it just happened, you know, that they fell into the world of tattooing. It kind of grabs you, you know, like honestly, when I, when I, even, when I started tattooing halfway through my apprenticeship, I wasn’t really like, you know, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to wear that, uh, or to have that title, like, you know, tattoo guy or a tattoo artist, whatever you want to call it. 

Speaker 2 (00:40:12):

But after, after sort of getting involved in and making tattoos for awhile, it’s really sort of like, it sort of grabs you. It’s really, um, it’s really like no other, um, medium, you know, it’s just so unusual. I mean, even after tattooing for as long as I have, you know, there’s always a day of the week where I’m like, you know, I sort of get in that flow, that zone that all artists get into at some point during the process. And I always get to this point even to this day where I’m like, this is so strange, like this is such a bizarre way to make a living. You know, it’s just, uh, it’s like, um, 

Speaker 1 (00:40:57):

You get to get up in the morning and you know, you’re going to get to go draw and make art and 

Speaker 2 (00:41:05):

Actual the actual process of like depositing pigment into people’s skin and this weird transaction. And there’s all this like, and it’s the fact that it’s ancient. It’s just, it’s just really bizarre, you know, but it’s, it’s really cool and I love being a part of it, but it just doesn’t go away. The strangeness of it 

Speaker 1 (00:41:33):

Three to it. And now you’ve got like, in this day and age, there is the term of like tattoo collectors. Like that’s a new thing. There’s people who only get tattooed by one artist. There’s people who travel around the country, getting tattooed by different people. A lot of shops bring in different tattoo artists from around the country. So, I mean, it’s turned into this whole other thing and I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty cool, I think. Um, but from the day and age where like, maybe you got tattooed because you were a sailor and you wanted to, but I maybe it’s kind of the same thing. It’s like maybe you were a sailor and you wanted to commemorate that you were on the whatever ship is part of whatever fleet for me anyways, everything, all, all of the tattoos that I have are, are personal to me in some way. And I would, I mean, I want to believe most people are getting tattoos for that reason. I’m sure there’s people who just get tattoos to get tattoos, but 

Speaker 2 (00:42:35):

That’s the board there’s, you know, there’s people that need absolutely no reason to get a tattoo. They just want the, they want that, that, um, you know, like I said, that transaction, they just want to, it’s like going to the mall and getting a new pair of shoes or something. Um, but then there’s the whole Rite of passage thing. There’s a lot of Memorial, um, tattoos that happen. Um, certainly a lot of like, you know, snapshots in time, like, you know, people want to sort of preserve something permanently, you know, like you, you talk about your photography. It’s really like that same ability to sort of like freeze frame something and bookmark it. And that’s it. Like, it’s not going anywhere. You know what I mean? Which is pretty cool. So it’s like a little snapshot. And then like when you’re, when you’re a group of women come in or they’re on vacation and the husbands are home and they’re all giggling, like they’re doing something wrong and they all want to get this little Zia tattoo because it’s, it’s crazy to get a tattoo. 

Speaker 2 (00:43:48):

It’s, there’s something really sweet about that. And that, that will always happen, you know? And then anywhere from that to like, you know, someone who just lost their six month old daughter and they just can’t bear the pain. So they want to do something to sort of like, um, you know, get outside of themselves for at least 45 minutes to get this, this little Memorial tattoos so they can, so they can get through it, you know? So in, in everything in between, so it’s pretty, um, it transcends a lot of, and a lot of things, you know, it’s not just marking yourself sometimes therapy. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (00:44:33):

So with, um, the crazy recent times, like you guys can’t do walk in anymore, like how has that changed? 

Speaker 2 (00:44:42):

Well, honestly for me and where I’m at with tattooing, I don’t really do too much, too many walk-ins in the true sense of the word. Um, cause like I said, like I’ve even had this conversation with other tattooers. It’s almost like the walk-in tattoo is sort of a dying thing or it may have already died. And that is like, I just described like the group of women or the group of people that, you know, that, that does happen, you know, but nowhere near as much as it used to happen, it’s just that, um, Keppra tattoo shops just operate a little differently and the way the social media thing it’s like people are more inclined to, uh, schedule an appointment, you know, really go through and pick out their tattoo artists. And it’s not so much about, you know, collecting these little, super near tattoos. And like I said, there are some people for the, most of the walk-ins that, that we do if we do any, are usually people on vacation, vacation in Santa Fe and they want to get their little Kokopelli or their Zia tattoo. Um, because they just love Santa Fe. That’s usually what the walk-ins are. Nowadays we go, uh, more by appointment it’s it’s kinda like, uh, the walk-in thing is sort of few and far between. So even with COVID, you know, it’s, it’s still kind of operates the same. It didn’t really affect us too much. 

Speaker 1 (00:46:03):

I drive by the, uh, so Jeffrey works at Dawn’s custom tattoos in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And I drive by all the time. It’s almost in my neighborhood. And um, I mean the main thing I’ve seen is there’s not the sign outside that says walk-ins open. 

Speaker 2 (00:46:20):

My business is concerned. I mean, I, most of the tattoos that I do are usually accustomed appointment, only tattoos. Um, if I have time and I’m sitting around for some reason, if someone cancels or, or whatever, and someone happens to walk in and, um, not so much COVID time, but before then, and I have time to do a tattoo, I’ll absolutely do it. But, um, we have other tattoos at Don’s that I’ve only been touching, you know, a few years, a couple of years, they’re usually the ones that take on, um, what we would call a walk in or something like, 

Speaker 1 (00:46:56):

And it’s different than being, like, say in San Francisco next to a bar on the late night where, I mean, that was kind of like where people just show up drunk, like, Hey, 

Speaker 2 (00:47:09):

I worked in those shops 

Speaker 1 (00:47:10):

Would be, yeah, 

Speaker 2 (00:47:12):

Well, what we call those shops, we refer to those as street shops. You have a lot of foot traffic. I mean, Santa Fe is a small town. I mean, I don’t care if you have a shop at the Plaza, you’re only going to do so many walk-ins. So, but in a town like, you know, San Francisco, if you’re in a busy district, then you’re going to be, you know, I worked at a shop in DC where I, my hours were, uh, probably going at 3:00 PM and work until 1:00 AM. You know, it was right in Adams Morgan, and it was slammed busy the entire time, but it was also, you know, there’s a whole different type of clientele. You know, you’re talking about people, like you said, we’ve had a few drinks and they’re like, oh my God, let’s get a tattoo or whatever. And you know, it’s, it’s a whole different ball game. It’s not like this creative collaborative transaction. It’s more of just like, oh my God, let’s get a tattoo. It’s a dare is what it is after a few drinks. It’s like, let’s go do this crazy thing. You know, I’m glad we pulled up this. So this is some more illustrative type stuff that I do. And this obviously is, is tattoo related. Um, 

Speaker 1 (00:48:24):

Yeah. So for those who don’t live in Santa Fe, if you live in Santa Fe, you know exactly what this is, but if you don’t, you might not. So you want to talk about that? 

Speaker 2 (00:48:34):

Absolutely. I mean, this is a, I’m glad that this came up. I forgot to include this because I actually just did this isn’t original design in mind based on obviously a, but, um, I just did this image pretty much as is as a tattoo on someone and it’s, uh, in video format on my Instagram page, but, um, it came out great. It was a great little tattoo. Um, yeah, this is a depiction of Zozobra, which is, uh, should I describe what’s is over, is for those who don’t know that’s a whole other, uh, interview. Um, 

Speaker 1 (00:49:12):

I know that guy too 

Speaker 2 (00:49:15):

Crazy event that happens or has happened for the past, what 90 some years 

Speaker 1 (00:49:22):

Going on 90 something, 

Speaker 2 (00:49:24):

Um, where annually, we burn this huge 50 foot tall animated puppet, I guess you’d call it that represents, uh, if I’m old man gloom and represents your years, uh, frustrations and despair loom and all that. So at the end of each year, what happens, uh, what, uh, at the end of the summer. So at the end of each summer, the whole entire town typically would gather around publicly and watch this huge animated growing, uh, helpings burn as they all chant burn him. It’s pretty, uh, 

Speaker 1 (00:50:08):

And we literally burn him. 

Speaker 2 (00:50:10):

Yeah. And we literally burn him. It’s very dark and pagan and weird and, but super cool 

Speaker 1 (00:50:19):

Tattoos. Do you think you’ve done over the years? 

Speaker 2 (00:50:22):

You know, I run up the, not nearly as many as you think. I would say, I don’t know. Less than 20 probably. Yeah. So, but uh, certainly, certainly it doesn’t for sure. And, um, cause usually a, um, as, as over tattoo would, would have to be pretty sizable, you know, we couldn’t do like a really small tattoo, it’s it depicts is over. I like you could like say like a Zia or, or a coyote or something where you could do really tiny. So I think that’s probably why, but, um, I just did this image of it, which came out really cool, but I’ve done, I’ve done quite a few, uh, you know, sizeable as over tattoos over the years. In fact, the first time I did a pretty sizable as is over tattoo, I was actually working in Baltimore and um, yeah, a client came through there that was a good friend of mine from Santa Fe. 

Speaker 2 (00:51:24):

She had family in DC and I was working like in between DC and Baltimore and he told her to come get tattoo. Anyways, she came through Baltimore to get tattooed by me and I tattooed as a Zilber on her, which was really cool because I had already lived in New Mexico for a few years. And like I said, I had come and gone a few times. And that was one of the times that I had went back to the east coast and tattooed for awhile. So I got the tattoo as a zebra in my hometown of Baltimore, which is kind of bizarre, but 

Speaker 1 (00:51:55):

That’s awesome. Oh, this on the wall at Don’s 

Speaker 2 (00:52:02):

Yeah, that’s actually a print of it. I actually sold the original, which was kind of cool, um, at a show idea at this gallery called keep contemporary, which was the gallery I was talking about. Um, friend of mine is a curator there and it’s mostly a gallery of like, uh, sort of lowbrow surrealistic paintings. 

Speaker 1 (00:52:26):

Um, and 

Speaker 2 (00:52:28):

They’re right downtown. They’re on the corner of, uh, oh gosh, right off the Plaza. I think I want to say Marcy and, uh, really close to the O’Keeffe museum. Like they’re like adjacent to the O’Keeffe museum. Um, so whatever that, that cross street is, but, uh, it’s a nice gallery. They, they show a lot of, um, uh, surrealistic stuff you’d see in the juxtapose magazine, um, that kind of stuff, whatever you want to categorize that modern surrealism, I guess you’d say, but they did a, they did a couple shows of local tattooers and we all put up, um, you know, some tattoo inspired paintings. This was actually a watercolor. I did a couple of years back and we original sold, which was cool. Um, because it sold for a little bit of money, which I was excited about. 

Speaker 1 (00:53:19):

I mean, that is a good question. How often do you sell originals of that are tattoo inspired or even flash for that matter? 

Speaker 2 (00:53:30):

I mean, not that often, I, every year, like there’s usually an annual convention that happens in Albuquerque. Um, obviously like everything else this year, it was canceled, but every year around that time I’ll produce something. What I think would be sort of, uh, crafty and gets you that might sell. Um, but what I’ll do usually is make a bunch of prints of it and sell the prints and try to keep my hands on the original. But for this specific painting of this, this over, it was kind of the opposite. I didn’t sell too many of the prints, which was kind of surprising. I thought they were going to sell like crazy. I think I sold maybe 20 of the prints. It’s not about no. And, um, but I did sell the original. Anyway, this is a cool little tattoo. I made a little, not too long ago. Kind of interesting. This is like, again, I was talking about that sort of minimalist approach to tattooing. Now that’s really popular, which is basically just like, um, I like to refer to it. It’s almost like a block print style, like a simple lines and what we call stippling or.work in this case, it’s kind of hard to get the knack of it, but it’s really fun to do. I enjoy it. 

Speaker 1 (00:54:44):

So that’s another interesting aspect of, of Instagram and tattooing. What, at one point, like if you lived in DC, for example, maybe there was like a style going around in Japan. There is a style there now, everything everywhere. You’re not like I live in Santa Fe, so I get this type of tattoo, like, 

Speaker 2 (00:55:06):

And you, and you’re absolutely right. And, um, you know, years ago when I worked on the east coast, I did much more like traditional stuff. Like, you know, if you’re familiar with like sailor, Jerry Amir, American style tattoos, a lot more of that. And when I lived in Santa Fe tattooing, it was much more of like, um, you know, you just showed that, that Ganesh half sleep piece idea. And it was much more like sort of like, um, 

Speaker 1 (00:55:34):

You 

Speaker 2 (00:55:34):

Know, new agents fired stuff, a lot, a lot of, uh, Hindu art, you know, certainly stuff like this. Um, this would take place much more incentive for you than it would for me back east when I learned how to tattoo, which was, you know, 19 years ago, there was only three shops in Santa Fe. We were the best shop. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. You know, if you, if you wanted to get tattooed, you can go to any of those three shops. If you wanted to get a nice tattoo, you came to our shop. The way my mentor taught me how to tattoo is like, you know, I want you to do whatever walks in the door. I don’t care what it is. I don’t care if it’s a portrait. I don’t care if it’s good Nash. I don’t care what it is you’re doing it. 

Speaker 2 (00:56:16):

And you’re going to do it the best you can, and you’re going to learn how to tattoo everything. So that’s the school of thought that I came from, which I’m glad was the case, because it enabled me to sort of, uh, you know, figure out what I liked and what I didn’t like. And then it also, um, got me pretty proficient, you know, more or less about, you know, that all styles of tattooing, then whole applications of tattooing. Um, I got familiar with pretty quick. So, and then with, with that foundation, you’re able to sort of like, well, you know, I enjoy doing this. I don’t really enjoy doing that. Being in this industry, as long as I have it sort of affords you that, that decision-making where you can be like, well, I don’t have to do everything that comes into the door. I can give this tattoo to my coworker or, or, you know, shuffle things around. And that’s what, you know, it makes my, uh, my everyday job a little bit more personal and fun and I can be more selective. So 

Speaker 1 (00:57:15):

That’s still willing to work with people. 

Speaker 2 (00:57:17):

Absolutely. I mean, I, it’s actually pretty rare that I tell somebody, you know, I’m not the guy for you. I’m not, you know, it does happen 

Speaker 1 (00:57:28):

Then maybe you’re like, 

Speaker 2 (00:57:29):

Yeah, especially because now, like I said, most people have, have sort of decided that they want, for whatever reason they want me to do the tattoo, whether they, they saw their friends at you or they saw my Instagram or whatever it is. So of course I try to make, um, you know, I try to make that client happy and try to work with them if it’s just not clicking. And if it’s just something, I think someone else that I know in town can do a better job. I absolutely will refer them to them. You know, 

Speaker 1 (00:57:58):

You said you, you collect flash. Do you have a favorite tattoo that you have? 

Speaker 2 (00:58:11):

Um, I have a lot of tattoos that I really like actually tattooed my wedding proposal. 

Speaker 1 (00:58:18):

That that is a great tattoo. 

Speaker 2 (00:58:21):

I don’t know if you know this story. I think you do. 

Speaker 2 (00:58:26):

I think that all I’ll just go ahead and tell it, you know, you know, I recently asked Alex to marry me, I guess it was about a little over a year ago, even though I call her my wife. We’re not quite there yet because of COVID. We were supposed to get married a few months ago, but anyway, I just call her my wife because I don’t like the word fiance. Um, I had known I was going to do it for a while and I was trying to be, you know, super cool and figuring out this really cool way to do it. And I’ve heard all these friends that have done all these unique things and I was trying to figure out some really clever way to do it. And, um, I actually had the ring at this point and I’m still kind of stumped. And then I was just like, dude, I think it’s like right in front of you when we met in the tattoo shop, that’s how we met. 

Speaker 2 (00:59:12):

Um, she was one of my co-worker’s clients and that’s where we met and how we met. So, um, I decided it would be clever to tattoo the words, Alexandra, will you marry me on me and have her come into the shop and actually see it? So that’s what happened. What we did was we scheduled her a fake tattoo appointment. So she actually thought she was coming in to be tattooed that day. And what we did was Amelia, my coworker completed the tattoo just before Alex was due to show up. And, um, so the tattoo was done and it said, Alexandra, will you marry? I would show it to you right now, but it’s kind of an a, I would kind of have to take my pants. 

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):

Yeah. That might be awkward picture. At some point, 

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):

We’ll send you a picture of it. Um, cause it’s on, it’s like just above my knee on my thigh. So I’m not that of a provocative spot, but anyway, so 

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):

Awkward. So 

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):

She came into the shop and I’m expecting to see me hard at work and to see her artists setting up for her. And she came in and saw me on the table getting this tattoo and she was kind of confused. And she was like, oh, I didn’t know you were getting tattooed today. And I was like, well, yeah, you know, I had some spare time someone canceled, but I just got this little tattoo. You should come check it out. And you know, not only did we ha I had like, in my station, I had like flowers and the ring. And I went as far as to take photos of her parents holding the ring and her daughter holding the ring. And I had the photos anyway, it was this huge, well thought out thing. And, um, so she came over and she looked at the tattoo and it was, it was perfect. 

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):

Yeah. And then, you know, I don’t know if I included this, but I work with all women. So everybody in the shop was crying. You know, I’m standing there. Alex is still kind of in shock because the girls were in on it. So they there’s like three women there. They’re all balling. I’m kind of teared up. Alice is like in shock. And then of course I do the whole, I’m pretty old fashioned. So I got down on one knee and finished the proper proposal. And she said, yes. Oh. And not only that below the tattoo, there was two little boxes. One that said yes. And one that said no, and she, um, I gave her the tattoo machine to check whichever box you on it. And she checked the right one. 

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):

I love this story. I think I cried too. That’s just amazing. He did her first tattoo that night. 

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):

Yes, yes she did. And she did a really good job. And I’m not saying that like, tattooing is difficult. Like there’s a lot of like trial and error with it’s very crude and it’s anyway, it’s very difficult. And she did a simple check mark, which sounds like, oh, big deal. Simple check mark. But it’s perfect. It’s perfectly centered. It’s it’s perfect. So I don’t know what that means. I guess it’s a good thing, but 

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):

I think it’s a good, it’s a good thing. 

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):

I even joked that she was going to steal my job. So It was just her way of saying I can do what you can do. 

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):

She didn’t want to hurt you. Um, I mean, that’s a lot of trust there. You’re like, hi. So I want to spend the rest of my life with you. And, um, also don’t, um, here, here’s this object that you’re going to definitely mark me with and don’t for me, 

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):

What are the best parts about that story is her Alexandra? His father is, gosh, I think he’s 81, very like, you know, kind of old fashion conservative type dude or a veteran that not super fond of what I do for a living, but he respects me cause I’m a good guy and I treat his daughter well, but you know, I’m sure he probably wishes I did something else for a living, but anyway, he absolutely loved that story. And not only did he love the story, he tells it to everyone. In fact, he sent emails, his other children, and to all his friends, he’s a really good writer. So he wrote this like story type email, um, about the proposal and everything and how clever it was and how blah, blah, blah, how, how interesting and so pretty. Uh, he was even, he was impressed. So I must’ve did something right. 

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):

Well, going back to what I was saying when we started talking, I think when you’re creative, you’re creative. So you’re, you’re creative. You’re going to see interesting things. You’re going to take pictures, you’re going to make paintings of them. And when you meet that perfect lady, you’re also going to extend that creativity to her. I was just, that’s just such an amazing story. And I love that. And how amazing that that’s permanently part of your, your, your collection of, 

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):

I mean, it’s really, um, the fact that I, that I kind of unknowingly made the proposal permanent, it’s kind of, it’s really cool. And I wasn’t really thinking about it at time. Um, cause you know, I’m covered in tattoos, but it really is an interesting way to preserve that, that moment, you know? Sure. There’s photos and there’s videos and there’s everything that normally would be, it would be had, but I have the permanent, uh, question tattooed on me. So it’s pretty awesome. 

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):

That’s a pain, a little extra during the stay at home time. 

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):

Yeah. It’s amazing because like, you know, to be honest, like, you know, painting on canvas is something that I, that I, that I’ll put down, you know, for a while and I’ll pick it back up and I’ll put it back down. Cause you know, I do a lot of, um, creative aspects of on a daily basis. So it’s hard for me to come home on the weekend and be like, I’m gonna, you know, do this landscape, you know, but um, that little bit of break that little bit of like pause button reset thing that we all had that quarantine was, it was amazing because it’s sort of like, we really didn’t have from personally, I really didn’t have any more extra time. 

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):

It’s sort of like just put, put everything in perspective even, even for a few weeks and, and sort of forced everyone to hit the pause button and just like, be like, okay, like let’s just simplify things. Let’s just simplify things and, and do what we love to do. And, um, it’s amazing like how much, how much people accomplished, you know, and not just me, but like how Sandra and everybody was doing all these things that they as sort of, uh, you know, may have stopped doing for awhile or sort of forgot that they had these talents or these, you know, goals or dreams or whatever. It was pretty amazing to watch, you know? Yeah. What are we doing? What’s important. What’s what’s going on. So, 

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):

And I don’t know, you know, how much of that energy that we, you know, collectively can, can carry out of this, but I have hope and I think that we will quite a bit as society, you know, I think that we, we all sort of learned a lot, you know, this year has sort of kicked us all on the Assabet and just say, say the least. 

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):

Yeah. Yeah. And, and we’re about halfway through the year, so try to wish time away, but it’s just been that year where you like, oh yes, 20, 20, what? Heaven. Yes. But good people out there. And I, and I really think creativity’s keeping me going and I believe it’s keeping a lot of my friends going and get that out there. So, so art and the raw, if you’re enjoying art in the raw, um, please like comment, subscribe, follow us on Instagram on Facebook. We’ve got more interesting conversations coming up on some of the episodes I’ve brought different desks back. So anything you want to toss out there, Jeffrey? 

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):

Uh it’s like you said, everybody keep their head up and stay creative and thanks so much for it for thinking of me, including me in this great little thing you have going on here. I really appreciate it. But yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):

Thanks for taking the time, keeping me inspired and hopefully keeping other people inspired and keep it going for sure. Well, thanks for joining me in my backyard. And um, hopefully sooner than later, we’ll just like, have everybody come over and hang out in the backyard, but, um, until then, uh, this works pretty good. All right. Well, we’ll have a good night and um, I’ll talk peace in 

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):

[inaudible].