December 12, 2021
Transcription Photography, Hip Hop + Culture with David Scheinbaum
Anne Kelly (00:00:13):
This is art in the raw today’s guest is David Scheinbaum. David is a photographer and, and gallerist and the, for former director of the Marion center fo photography among other things. I’m your host Anne Kelly, thanks for joining us today, David.
David Scheinbaum (00:00:31):
Oh, it’s a pleasure. Anne it’s good to see you. You too, I’ll say right off the bat, I’m not used to talking to people very much lately, so it’s nice to see a face and, and to talk
Anne Kelly (00:00:42):
It, it is definitely where are you today? David?
David Scheinbaum (00:00:45):
I’m sitting at my desk in, uh, Janet’s and my studio, which it also functions as Scheinbaum and russek. And it also functions as where a dark room is. And, and I have this incredibly messy desk, which you cannot see and I’m probably, that’s a good thing. <laugh> and yeah, it’s great. I didn’t have to clean up anything and I didn’t have to get dressed or so this is a totally comfortable, that’s
Anne Kelly (00:01:18):
The good thing about zoom. You just get the space behind you, um, looking how you want it, and then you’re good to go. Or you use a crazy zoom background, but
David Scheinbaum (00:01:28):
Some of those, I know I I’ve seen a few of those too, but then people disappear when they back up into them or something.
Anne Kelly (00:01:34):
Start looking a little bit surreal. I gotta, sorry.
David Scheinbaum (00:01:37):
Well, this is a real background. Yes, <laugh> mine. That’s a real light box.
Anne Kelly (00:01:42):
So, so David and I met, I think it was 1998. I was a, well, I was one of his students at the college of what was then at the college of Santa Fe. Yeah. And you were the head of the department and that was actually why I moved to New Mexico at all. I really got into the photography in, in Denver and I heard about this new, exciting, I mean the college had a photo program before that, but this whole building was being constructed with brand new dark rooms. And,
David Scheinbaum (00:02:17):
And yeah, you were, is that why you came? That’s how you came to Santa Fe?
Anne Kelly (00:02:20):
It is, yes. So my first semester the classes were still in the army barracks and they were building, they were completing the construction. So I got to walk around and watch it being built. And then you brought in the whole Beaumont Newhall Library. Yeah. Which was an amazing resource that we had there. Yeah. So you, you worked for, for Beaumont.
David Scheinbaum (00:02:52):
Yeah. I, um, I, I guess you’d say I was Beaumont’s assistant mm-hmm <affirmative> I see you came to New Mexico for the college of Santa Fe. So I came to New Mexico for Beaumont Newhall growing up and, um, always kind of having a very early interest in photography. Beaumont was kind of my hero, you know, as other kids might have, like, you know, Mickey Mantle in baseball or some, someone in sports or someone in, in, in art, I don’t know. But Beaumont was really someone who I read every word at the time. I had read every word he written and it really was after I went to, uh, a lecture he gave at the metropolitan museum of art, um, on the occasion he, of, uh, of Paul Strand exhibit. And actually it was Paul Strand and he, uh, speaking and, um, it was after actually seeing him and, you know, hearing him speak that I decided I wanted to move here and see if I could work with him, which was a total fantasy.
David Scheinbaum (00:04:09):
And, and in a way it’s a good lesson for maybe some of your viewers, because, you know, I moved here with a dream and, and it happened right. Were in New York. Before that I was in Brooklyn, I was in New York. I was teaching at two univers, I was teaching at two colleges. Basically. I started teaching college really young. I was, I was very lucky. I don’t know that this could be done now, but my last year of college I had, I was teaching at, at a community college and another university, a place called LaGuardia Community College and Pace University. And I actually started teaching college. My last year of college. I did have a lot of photographic, practical experience, but not so much formal education. So, but I graduated it. I, I, I worked in, in on Madison avenue, I taught, but I, I kind of gave all that up and, and moved to New Mexico with the hope of meeting Beaumont and with a fantasy of working with him.
David Scheinbaum (00:05:17):
And it took me a few months after moving here where I kind of got up the nerve to call him, I was really nervous about calling him. And I, I remember I had written out like a couple of scripts on a pad, you know, like what I was gonna say. And like, I don’t know. I, I just like put myself through this really anxiety moment and, um, I’ve called him up. And for some reason I didn’t expect him to answer the phone <laugh> I, I don’t know. But so soon as like he got on the phone and like, I froze, and then I started stuttering. Like I am now I thought, um, oh, Mr. New, I didn’t know what to call him. Like Mr. Newhall, that new. So I got, I just started stumbling and he inter and he totally interrupted me. And he said, do you wanna come out and meet me?
David Scheinbaum (00:06:09):
<laugh>? I said, yes. And he goes, when do you wanna come? And I, and I didn’t have, and he goes, how about this afternoon? Wow. And, and he gave me directions to his house and, and, um, we met, and that was kind of the beginning of probably close to 15 years of working with him. And I’m still every day, basically, not just thinking about him, but pretty much every day, I’m still learning from the time and the years I, I spent with him the last, maybe six years of his life. He wasn’t in, um, he wasn’t in perfect physical health. So I also traveled with him. So for six years, almost once a month, that was his rule. He only would travel once a month in. Okay. He would’ve, he was always asked to speak at places and he would’ve traveled a lot more, but, but pretty much for, for many years, once a month, we would go on these like four day trips somewhere where if he was lecturing on for Friday, we would go on Wednesday and we would come back on Sunday.
David Scheinbaum (00:07:22):
And that gave us a lot of time. And it was really those trips and those dinners and the meals and the hotels and the airports and that it was kind of amazing. Um, it was amazing to time for me. And, and as I said, it has a lot to do with, with the rest, with my life. I was gonna say the rest of my life, which is true. It, it affects my life every day. And now as a executor of his estate, I would, you know, again, almost every day I have, uh, or something that, um, I have to address. So, so yeah, these were amazing years. Can you imagine if you hadn’t made that phone call, if you, well, that’s what I was, I guess, leading at when you said, when I said, if your viewer, the lesson here is, you know, first of all, anywhere one, everyone could be accessible.
David Scheinbaum (00:08:21):
You know, you just, for some people you might have to, if we could talk about hip hop later, I’ll tell you, you know, that’s probably the least accessible group of people, but in terms of artists and especially scholars and especially people who are teachers and, and who really care about the next generation, you know, not only is everyone accessible, but you know, I think everyone as probably you and I have already have a have, or feel a responsibility of wanting to give back and wanting to share with the up and coming people, I’m sure at photo eye, you have interns or assistants. And I, I guessing, but knowing you the way I do, I’m sure you’ve taken a few people under your wing already. And, and they’re probably already left you and entered the world, you know, so, you know, Beaumont’s generation, our generation, you know, it’s, it’s very much a part of the process.
David Scheinbaum (00:09:24):
So again, you know, if people are watching this people shouldn’t hesitate. If there’s someone out there who inspires you, who, who feel has someone to offer you in your life, in your work, in whatever endeavor you’re, you’re practicing, you should try to seek them out. And I, and I would say that in my experience to people, I encourage to do that often, it, it comes true. You know, they, they get to be with those people and of the that’s where a different kind of learning takes place. That’s, that’s where life happens. And, and I think, you know, more and more, especially in these days, people should be taking advantage of that.
Anne Kelly (00:10:10):
Well, and there’s all of these new ways to reach out to people anymore. That’s true. Maybe if, if it had been 2020, when you were reaching out to Beaumont, you might’ve DMD him through Instagram or, you know,
David Scheinbaum (00:10:25):
<laugh>, and then it would’ve been maybe one of a, of a thousand he’d get a day. And, and who know, I mean, Beaumont made it a, you know, Beaumont responded to everybody. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> answered every phone call. He answered every letter. He, he was, you know, I try daily, you know, people, people who know me make fun of me. I wake up, you know, most days saying like, today I’m gonna be like Beaumont. And like, by my second phone call, it’s like, I don’t wanna answer the phone. It’s like, I’m answer, you know, Beaumont was so generous. And so giving, um, it’s kind of was amazing. And I watched him for all those years. Literally. He never, he never turned anyone away and he did never didn’t respond. And unfortunately, I have to say as much as I aspired to that, but I kind of probably do it too often. So anyway, well, I said yes to you.
Anne Kelly (00:11:24):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. We ran into each other at, at visions, which is a great local lab. And of course we’ve known each other for years, but I’d actually been, um, thinking about calling you David, and then I just ran into you. So it was of kind of
David Scheinbaum (00:11:39):
Perfect. Well, that’s kind of the Santa Fe thing, right? It is, it is very Santa Fe. You just have to think about the person and you, you run into it even with COVID it still happens. Yeah.
Anne Kelly (00:11:49):
<laugh> so one of the memorable classes I took with you was, was fine print, and that was just an amazing experience. Are you still shooting all film? I know you’ve been making some camera list work recently. Do you shoot digital for anything?
David Scheinbaum (00:12:08):
I shoot digital for color. If we talk about the hip hop work later, you know, all the color work, and that’s not, that’s a little bit of a lie, but 95% of the color work is digital. And then if we talk, I’ve been working in India the last five years, I guess, four or five years, the first trip I shot just all black and white second trip. I shot black and white and color film mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then the trips after that, all the color I’ve shot digital. So if I shoot color, it’s digital, but I’m still shooting black and white. I’m still in the dark room. I’m still printing. I try five days a week, but I’m in the dark room four days a week. Now, at least four days a week since March, since quarantine. So I’m in a dark room a lot, and it’s not only doing camera-less stuff, but mostly
Anne Kelly (00:13:00):
Well, and it’s helpful that you have your, your gallery and your home and your dark room all in the same place. I’m sure that’s been definitely helpful during quarantine.
David Scheinbaum (00:13:12):
It it’s, it’s kind of was Janet’s. So my way, you know, we, we started this way, you know, we, you know, both of us being photographers, you know, we, of course, we always had our dark room in our house. And when we started Scheinbaum and Russek, you know, we started that in our living room of, of a, of a, of our house. And then we ended up moving out of that house to another house, down the street with, with our family. And we turned that whole house into Scheinbaum and Russek gallery as well. It was still our dark room in our workspace. And then when we went public, you know, we’ve had, we had a space, you know, on Guadalupe street. I don’t know if you were here for that, but we had a public space for quite a number of years, but actually we closed the space probably right when you came, because when the funding, when we received the funding from John and Anne Marion to build the Marion center for photographic arts, I had to make it to decision all those previous years.
David Scheinbaum (00:14:18):
I was teaching at the college, but basically I was teaching Mondays and Wednesdays. And so I would go there two full days a week. And that was it. And the rest of the days I would be at Scheinbaum and Russek and Janet and I were starting our business and doing all that at, but when the funding came to build this photo center, um, it was clear that I, I would have to be there more like all the time. Yeah. So we had to make a decision whether what we were gonna do with Scheinbaum and Russek, you know, and it was more than one person to do it because, so what we ended up doing is closing , our gallery public gallery mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I could be at the college more. And that’s when we started working out of our house. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so that, you know, so that brought Scheinbaum and Russek kind of back home, but we had to move to another place.
David Scheinbaum (00:15:20):
So it was a little bigger. And then I was of course at the college, like five days a week, which, um, but I was still kind of, you know, trying to hang, you know, take respons, you know, responsibility for the business. But a lot of those years, you know, Janet certainly, you know, a lot, a lot more of the work fell on Janet because I, I was at the college, but that was a decision we made together. And that was something, you know, certainly she supported, you know, we made the together for me to do this thing at the college, as well as to keep the business. And, and I think it was a good decision. Certainly it was good for the first three quarters of its life. So, yeah, yeah.
Anne Kelly (00:16:05):
Yeah. Well, you and Janet have been great co-collaborators over the years, just from <affirmative> being partners in life to running the gallery together, and you even have photographic projects that are collaborative and then your own solo projects, culture, the reoccurring theme, you
David Scheinbaum (00:16:30):
Know, sometimes I look at, uh, my work on my books and, and I, and I just sometimes have to think, you know, that person might be a little schizophrenic. Like, I don’t know for other people, if they’re seemingly related might be that people might think they’re seemingly unrelated, but the truth is, yes, I’m interested in culture, but all of my work comes from my personal life. Mm-hmm <affirmative> well, every project, if you wanna go through, I could tell you how that relates. I still believe that, you know, we do our best work through personal experience and, and we don’t do our best work. Like if we go, you know, fly to, um, some exotic location for two weeks and take pictures and come back, and then all of a sudden we have a portfolio or a body of work, you know, I think it, it, if there’s an emotional tie, if it comes from our own life, if it comes from our own family, especially that’s when I think we could do our strongest work.
David Scheinbaum (00:17:33):
I think if we have even conf add in some conflict or us some anxiety or some doubt, that’s all good stuff, that’s all stuff that kind of keeps us honest. It keeps us on edge. It keeps us working. So, you know, the Miami work is really about my relationship with my grandfather. My grandfather was someone who was very important to me growing up. He was a European immigrant. He was a, but New York, he was a butcher in New York. You know, it’s one of those, you know, he came to America with nothing and he was a big man. And, and especially as a kid in the sixties, and as much as he was kind of old world European world had a heavy accent or, or when I started, you know, having long hair and wearing beads and bells and, and boots and going through the sixties between my parents and my grandmother, my relatives I’d get a lot of shit for the things I was getting into.
David Scheinbaum (00:18:39):
And the way I was looking and the way I was dressed, my grandfather was always the voice, leave him alone, leave him alone, let him be, you know, my grandfather was really an amazing understanding soul. And, and I knew him as this European immigrant, always with a overcoat and a cap and something weird happened after my grandmother died. He and this is, and I’m sure a lot of New Yorkers have this story, but to my grandmother died, my grandfather moved to Florida, which is a kind of a Jewish New York thing. And he ended up moving down there and it was safer, the weather and, and such. And so the first time I went to visit him in Florida , I see this man, he was like wearing, you know, checkered pants and sunglasses. And he was wearing a white cap. And he was like this different guy.
David Scheinbaum (00:19:39):
He was like a different person completely. And then unfortunately, as he aged and got ill, I met a different Florida, the Florida of, of the retirement community and the senior and the medical situation and, and the kind of the poverty within the elders down there and, and such. So it was really through visits to my grandfather in Florida, that I actually started this work. And the first pictures I took in Florida, where of my grandfather in his room, he lived in a rooming house down there. And there was a rule there that you could live there as long as you could get around under your own power. And, and as soon as you showed signs of illness or impairment, they would throw you out. And, and then you were looking at a nursing home or something, which most people did not want to go.
David Scheinbaum (00:20:37):
So my grandfather kind of spent it last year or so of his life in his room. He, he, uh, he was afraid to leave his room cause he didn’t want the people there to see he wasn’t well mm-hmm <affirmative> so it seemed like it was a very weird situation for him to be in at the end of his life. And I, so the, as I started learning about this whole thing, which was totally new to me, of course, I took some pictures, but after he passed is when I really decided that I wanted to try to photograph the life of this retirement community. And, and the book is called Miami beach photographs of an American dream. And very much, most of the subjects, most of the people I photographed in the seventies were immigrants , and they all came to America with this dream and they thrived in their middle years. And then they were down there, retired, of course, some were wealthy, but many were not wealthy. And they were just living on their meager social security checks. And, and that’s kind of what the pictures are about. And that’s what the book is about.
David Scheinbaum (00:21:52):
Is the book still in print. They’re actually hard to find at this point. I, I try to buy ’em myself. If I see ’em in good condition, especially they, they made very few hard covers. So I like to try to buy the hard covers if I could find them. Well, I probably have about seven who published that the university presses of Florida mm-hmm <affirmative> and actually they were based at the time in Gainesville and okay. I could tie this all together. When I moved to Santa Fe in late seventies, I was working on making these prints for this book. And one of the first things I did with Beaumont besides working with him on the Beaumont actually helped me edit. I had about 3000 pictures, photographs, and Beaumont actually helped me with the editing. He helped me with the selection, and then, you know, this was still, I was getting to meet him, but then he offered to write the introduction to the book, which was something I would’ve been too afraid to ask him.
David Scheinbaum (00:23:01):
<laugh> I, I know I would never have asked him to do it. I, I would’ve been too like embarrassed, but he offered to do it. And then he called, you know, on the jacket, Jerry eman wrote something. Jerry was at the university in Gainesville, university of Florida. So the book was being published out of there. So he actually, even, he’s the one who asked Jerry to write something for the jacket, which again, you know, for me, this was unbelievable. And then I had show of the work at what is now CCA here in Santa Fe. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it used to be called the Armory for the Arts. And I had a show of about 60 of the prints and Beaumont even came down and helped me lay it out, lay out the show, which again, amazing. He offered, I never would’ve asked him. He goes, oh, let me come down. We’ll help you. We’ll sequence them together. And he did. So it was kind of a amazing for me.
Anne Kelly (00:24:01):
That is amazing. Yeah. Flash forward, let’s hop over to one of your Instagram pages.
David Scheinbaum (00:24:10):
Now you said hop over. So I’m guessing it’s gonna be hiphop <laugh> that’s a good choice of words. <laugh>
Anne Kelly (00:24:17):
I didn’t even mean to do that. Just kind of happened, but I know that’s
David Scheinbaum (00:24:20):
The best way when it happens like that. So as I
Anne Kelly (00:24:23):
Understand it, your son is a, was a fan of hip hop and kind of introduced you. It would’ve
David Scheinbaum (00:24:30):
Been, this is the late nineties. It’s probably like 97, 96, 97. So there was a place in Santa Fe called Harambe. And this man whose name was Mark, he taught a hip hop class and he, he came from the south Bronx. So he was very much about hip hop and he was very much about the roots of hip hop. And so the kids started taking classes, uh, once a week and he would teach them moves basically. And, and you know, I would drop Zach off. I’d pick ’em up sometimes, you know, when you up, your kids you’d come early. So I’d, I’d hang around, I’d stay outside, I’d go in. And, but I, I watched, you know, I I’d come in and, and the kids would be in a circle. And I realized that Mark was not just teaching them hip hop. He was also teaching them the history, the culture of hip hop.
David Scheinbaum (00:25:23):
He was teaching them about life being black in New York and, and living and growing up in the streets and how hip hop started. He was talking about the roots of hip hop. He was teaching them the branches of hip hop with, you know, not just dancing, but of course, turntable, you know, DJing and spoken word, graffiti. Uh, he was explaining, and he was basically giving them the full experience of hip hop, which is, you know, as KRS one says, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a culture, it’s a life. It’s not something you do. It’s something you are to quote KRS one of course that led to the kids wanting to go to a concert. And they were, I think, 12 or 11. And the only place to go to a concert was in Albuquerque at the Sunshine Theater mm-hmm <affirmative>. So it was like, you know, the other thing about it, it is that concerts in Albuquerque were primarily during the week, everyone plays Albuquerque, but from the east coast touring west from the west coast, touring east, you know, pretty much people would play Albuquerque during the week.
David Scheinbaum (00:26:39):
Cause it was, wasn’t a place they wanted to be on a weekend. Cause there wasn’t enough population. So like for a Friday or Saturday, you wanna be like in Phoenix or Dallas or Denver or Chicago. Right. So all the concerts end up being like a school night. So I ended up being the parent who agreed to take them to a concert. And I remember driving down that first time, you know, the kids and they’re like, you know, 12 and they’re saying, oh, okay, dad, you know, drop us off, pick us up at 11. You know? And I was saying, we hadn’t thought any of this out at that first show, but I said, no, there’s no way I’m dropping you off. I, I also was, was victim of, of the negative media around hip hop, the violence, the misogyny, the drugs, the Language I don’t know, you know, I had all this yeah.
David Scheinbaum (00:27:33):
Stuff that a lot of people still have around the genre. So I said, I’m not dropping you off. I’m coming. And they go, oh and they, of course, no, no, no dotn come, you know, so I promised that I’d stay in the back. So that very first show, which was an amazing show, actually, I stayed in the back and what I observed that night is what got me involved in this. You know, I watched, first of all, I watched this crowd from the back of the Sunshine and it was packed. I don’t know if you’ve ever been at Sunshine Theater when it was packed, but it was packed. And the crowd basically gobbled these four kids up and like sucked them into the crowd and deposited them right in front of the state, a wall of college kids, I’ll say, I don’t know, but I don’t mean they all college kids, but I’ll say older teenagers, they were older than your kids.
David Scheinbaum (00:28:29):
Yeah, for sure. My kids are the youngest kids there for sure. Yeah. But this wall came around them like to protect them from the crowd. And they, and I watched everyone like take care of these kids. And I knew right away, I did not have to worry about anything. And then while I was sitting in the back, it, me, how many kids came over to me and said like, well, why, why are those kids with you? Like you drove them down from Santa Fe <laugh> oh. And they, and the kids started telling me stories about their parents. And, and you did this and am, and is there, do, do I wanna chair, am I comfortable? Is there and, and am I, am I okay? And it was just amazing, you know, the rest of that story. And I try to write about this in the hip hop book is that, you know, music for me growing up in the sixties, you know, Woodstock and all it was, music was not just a form of entertainment.
David Scheinbaum (00:29:26):
You know, anyone who went to Woodstock knows this, for sure. But anyone who basically went to the Filmore or any other classic place in the sixties, you know, music was our, was who we were. It was our lifestyle. It was how we looked. It was how we dressed. It was how we talked. It was our, how we got our, our news. It was how we got our information. It was how we formed our politics. It’s how we formed our, our adulthood. And, you know, you could go from New York to San Francisco and walking in the street, just seeing how someone was walking and the way they were dressed. You knew it was okay to go over and talk to that person. There was this code, you, it was a cultural phenomena. I hadn’t seen that again until I went that night to a hip hop concert, where again, there was a dress code, there was a language code.
David Scheinbaum (00:30:20):
There was a secret handshake, which is still evolving if <laugh>, you know, but the, the respect, the transcendence of, of race and class and age and cultural background, everyone is brought together around this art form. And I will still say to this day, no matter how hardcore presentation, a hip hop performance is very few. If any artist ever leave the stage without giving a message to the kids in that crowd about taking responsibility about voting, which is appropriate today, if you ever go to a Public Enemy show, there’s a always voter voter registration in the lobby. No one leaves the stage without giving a message, a positive message to the youth of, of this world, of this country. So, you know, the rest of that story, and I know I’m probably talking too much already. No is when I got home, of course, the at night the phone call started coming from the other parents.
David Scheinbaum (00:31:25):
It’s like, you know, was, was there a bad language? <laugh> I go, yes. Was there drugs? I go, yeah. <laugh> was it kind, was it violent? I go, maybe a little few fights. Was it, you know, but, and then it said, well, are you gonna take them again? I said, yeah, of I am. <laugh> it’s totally cool. It’s totally okay. And I’m gonna let Zach go and I’m gonna go. And so I started going and then, then I decided though I wanted to, I need to photograph. I realized no one in my world had a positive impression of this genre or of these artists or of this music or whole thing. And that’s what I wanted to do with my work is I wanted to show what this is like, and I wanted to bring a positive light to what people were only getting negative from, from the media. And now of course, hip hop is kind of mainstream, you know, but when I was started, that was my goal was to try to do something positive for, for this genre, for these artists. And for this
Anne Kelly (00:32:40):
Movement, I can relate in that as a kid, there was a lot of shows I wanted to go to that. My dad was wanted me to go to, but wasn’t comfortable in me going on my own. So he would escort us to, to some shows as well. And then you were also asking if I had been to this Sunshine Theater and I’ll add that, um, I was in the crowd of a number of the shows that you, you photographed. So I remember seeing you up there on stage with the band and funny thing, being in school at the time I was thinking, you know, and it was usually a school night, like you mentioned. So I remember specifically being at this Public Enemy show and thinking, oh no, I hope I hope David doesn’t see me down here. It’s a school night. And which is funny to think about now, cause you were there too. Oh, I
David Scheinbaum (00:33:27):
Showed up to those eight o’clock classes next
Anne Kelly (00:33:30):
Day and I did too. I did.
David Scheinbaum (00:33:34):
Those were tough days, those next days. Yeah. So
Anne Kelly (00:33:37):
I mean, maybe you would’ve been mad if you saw me and a, I didn’t show up for class, but
David Scheinbaum (00:33:41):
No, I never really thought about, you know, talk about the work as the whole thing. But one of the things about the work is it’s primarily done from the stage I wanted it mm-hmm <affirmative> I wanted to shoot from the perspective of the artist. I wanna try to get that energy. So for me, I was under a shoot from the stage from the same point of view, as the performer, looking at the audience and I, that energy was very important to me. So I realized I was I’m. I was always, I always try to like be discreet and stay by the wings and hide behind curtains. But I never really thought about students being in the crowd, seeing me up there and knowing that’s I was, I was there <laugh>, that’s what I was doing a few years ago. There was a ver there was really a big hiphop show in Paris.
David Scheinbaum (00:34:29):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> at the Institute. It’s a Institute of Arab in art, but hiphop is also big in the middle east. I don’t know if people realize that you didn’t know that, but it probably makes sense. Now that I mentioned that, cuz there’s a lot in common, you know, you know, the out kind of giving voice to people without voice. Um, that’s something that’s very powerful aspect of hip hop culture and, and the music itself. I was in this show in, in Europe and actually at the opening of that show, they ended up bringing a lot of us to Paris for the opening. So I ended up meeting three or four other photographers who been photographing hip hop actually in every case, much longer than me. I didn’t start until the late nineties. Mm-hmm <affirmative> most of the photographers who were photographing hip hop, still audit in the beginnings, but I ended up meeting other photographers who are doing it.
David Scheinbaum (00:35:27):
And I ended up meeting the person who is involved with the, um, there’s a hiphop archive at Cornell university. So it was really through that, that all of this, all of my hip hop work now is, is at Cornell it’s preserved as a, in, in their hip hop archives. I, I just wanna mention that it, they have the work of, of a number of other photographers, but they also have, they have the archives of a lot of the pioneers of hip hop, all their and graffiti artists and break dancers. If anyone has time to Google, if you’re into hip hop, you could go to the Cornell university, hiphop archive. And there’s a lot of incredible work in that archive, but that’s where all this work is housed now. And the reason I started this Instagram page for the hiphop work is basically to tie it into the hiphop. All this work is at Cornell. So that’s when, when that happened, I started this Scheinbaum, hip hop page, and I need to give a shout out to my daughter, Andre, cause she actually post a picture a day <affirmative>.
Anne Kelly (00:36:38):
And so you mentioned earlier on in our conversation, it being a little harder to, to get access.In, in the hiphop world, did you originally get access through the Sunshine Theater or
David Scheinbaum (00:36:53):
It was hard that’s um, Janet’s better at telling this story, but cause she watched me for about two years being as patient as hell. And she, I think she still can’t believe how patient I was, cause on one hand it’s a very communicative group of people cause they communicate through their work, but they’re not great at answering letters, emails, phone calls, anything. And I knew from the very beginning before I started the, when I started it, when I was going to start it, I knew I wanted to work from the stage mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I did not only wanna get permission to photograph. I wanted, I needed permission to be on stage mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I, I did meet the people at the sunshine theater and they, I consider them good friends and family. Um, by now it’s been a long time it’s been over 20 years or so, but you know, getting permission from them to photograph is one thing.
David Scheinbaum (00:37:53):
But then to get permission to go on stage, there’s a whole, you know, you need permission from the artist you permissions from the tour managers. In some cases you need permission from PR companies, media companies, agents, you know, there’s a whole hierarchy and it it’s like everything else. People like people ask you, how do you get in a gallery? You know, how do you get a book published? How do you do this? The first one’s the hardest, you know? But once you’re get the one published, it’s easy to get the second one published or once you have a show, it’s easy to get a second show. So at that very first concert or two of the people who came over to me that night were part of the Hieroglyphics crew, their group of from Oakland. I didn’t know at the time at that first show, I did not know I was going to photograph.
David Scheinbaum (00:38:40):
I, I did not know I was gonna want to photograph, but by the time I wanted to photograph, I was able to at least call, uh, Buku well, Buku one someone who helped me a lot early on. So the people at the theater helped me. They, you know, I explained what I wanted to my goal was in, in terms of trying to put a positive light on, on the artist and on the genre, but having someone from the industry so to speak helped me. They called someone and they said, could this guy come? And so by the time I wanted to photograph, it took me about two years till I could start till I actually got, got it together where I, I could do what I wanted to do. But once I did two or three shows, I was able to connect with those artists.
David Scheinbaum (00:39:34):
And I’ve always given artists full use of anything I ever did. I feel it’s their work. As much as my, you know, they’ve always been very generous to me letting me share their image with me, letting me show photograph. I’ve always given them total access to my work. So by the time we’ve all established, it’s not about money and it’s not about notoriety. And it’s not about, especially in the music industry, a lot of people are taking advantage of they’re always it’s, you know, like how a lot of artists are always asked to donate prints to auctions. <laugh>, it’s the same in the music world. It’s even more people always want. Could I, you know, could I use your, this, could I use that, do that? You know, they’re always being asked for something and they’re not always being compensated, but by keeping you know, money and finance away from my, my hip hop work completely and I didn’t work, I didn’t wanna, I didn’t let my work in magazines.
David Scheinbaum (00:40:30):
I didn’t want it to go commercial. So to speak. I always try to keep it within the realm that I was comfortable in, which is about exhibiting and publishing. But I try to stay away from doing anything, which as much as that could be conceived as commercial, I stayed away from bigger commercial things in terms. So I’ve always been very protective of, of how the work was used, where it was used. And I’ve always been careful about my relationships, but the people at the Sunshine and those beginning concerts I shot, they helped me get to the next one. So I could call Gift of Gab from blackalicious. If I wanted to photograph Jurasic five and then he would call A-kill from Jurassic five and then they would say, okay. And then they would help me photograph living legends. Cause Charlie 2na would be, you know, so everybody would help early on and then kind of that circle got bigger and bigger a lot of time. And it took a lot of patience. Well,
Anne Kelly (00:41:33):
I recall a number of years after I graduated, you organized a Public Enemy concert at the college of Santa Fe. Yeah.
David Scheinbaum (00:41:42):
After about an hour and a half mm-hmm <affirmative> it started raining so hard that I was getting nervous that, you know, they’re gonna get electrocuted, uh, you know, it was pouring and I went out on stage and, and I just like grabbed the mic and said, thanks for coming, you know, go home it’s oh, it’s raining, whatever. And, and Chuck D and Flava Flav, they refused to leave. They, they refused to stop. And after I tried to stop it, they fight for another 40 minutes and they wouldn’t stop.
Anne Kelly (00:42:16):
I was there as well. And it, it, it was, I, I remember being freezing,
David Scheinbaum (00:42:21):
You know, it was a mess, but it was great. So that happened, you know, in the early days of Laureate, when, when the college became Santa Fe university, when I still there, I proposed, I taught a, a, a hip hop course. I taught a course as a freshman seminar. So I did a freshman seminar around hip hop and that led to bringing Buku one to campus. And we did some graffiti and it led to bring Shepherd Ferry to campus. And he did the mural there. So we brought Shepherd there. We brought, and then Dell was coming and he was gonna perform, but he had a tragedy in his family, but we, I had this momentum going around, hip hop music and culture. And, um, and then I met there, uh, a former of Public Enemy who lives here in Santa Fe, a man named Brian Hardgroove.
David Scheinbaum (00:43:19):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> who was the music director and bass for Public Enemy. We met. And actually it was through my friendship with Brian that we were able, and the, and I have to say, and at the time this didn’t stay true for many years, but at that time, um, Santa, the people behind Santa Fe university of online were very generous. So between my friendship with Brian, in terms of arranging for Public Enemy to come and the generosity of Laureate, agreeing to pay for it, um, we were able to do, which turned out to be an amazing weekend, I think for all of you guys and, and myself included so
Anne Kelly (00:44:03):
Well. And you were great, you invited all, all past students. It wasn’t just current
David Scheinbaum (00:44:08):
Yeah. People and all the high schools, kids in town came for free mm-hmm <affirmative> and, uh, yeah, we tried to, to spread that as much as we could around the community. Yeah. So, and then we bought OZO Motley the next year. So it lasted for about two years where we had that relationship with, um, with the administration of the school that we were able to do, stuff like that. So those were, that was a great time, actually, the picture that’s up right now, I, it was done at that college of Santa Fe show of Flava <laugh>
Anne Kelly (00:44:42):
Yeah, no, that, that, that was really a lot of fun of, of all of the shows that you photograph. Is there one that stands out for any particular
David Scheinbaum (00:44:53):
Reason? Try to keep my work to only artists who I felt were positive, meaning they’re, they’re not only they themselves were positive, but their music and their message was positive. Right. So pretty much. And, and I have to admit that that definition changed not only as time went on, but also as I learned more about the music, because I don’t know if I would’ve photographed like Snoop dog the first few years that I photographed when I was saying, oh, only positive, no gangster rappers, none, da da. Right. But by the time I was photographing, you know, Ice Tea and or Snoop, or yeah. The people they were also changing and they were evolving and they were doing more positive things in their communities. So I went to a few shows where I walked out, you know, I was on stage and I, I just put my cameras away and I left.
David Scheinbaum (00:45:44):
I not only didn’t wanna photograph, I just didn’t wanna be there. I didn’t wanna be a part of it. I didn’t wanna watch this. So they were, aren’t all, you know, great. But for the, to answer your question, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I guess I’m, I’m more attracted to the artists who are politically active with a political message or culturally active, with a positive message, uh, in terms of growing into adulthood, as responsible individuals. And I guess the people who would stand out in those two genres of saying are groups like Public Enemy, like The Roots and on the, and on the positivity growth side, you know, people, someone like KRS one Souls of Mischief, Dell, you know, people from the IRO crew, NAS, even Gang Stars coming up now, as you’re flipping here, people that shows that stand out are either really political or really heavy hitting with a really good message.
David Scheinbaum (00:46:51):
Those are the people who I’m still listen to, even though I’ve, I’ve kind of stopped the work. I mean, I, I shot pre COVID mm-hmm <affirmative>. If somebody comes to Albuquerque who I haven’t photographed, they’ll go and shoot just to put the work in, in my archives and then for some crazy reason. And, and you asked me earlier, is there anything I don’t wanna to talk about? I don’t wanna really talk about this. I never went to Insane Clown Posse shows mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I remember I sometimes be in Albuquerque and I’d see lines around the block of the Sunshine with everybody dressed in as clowns, like dressed crazy. And I always say like, oh man, I’m never gonna go in. I never wanna be in there with those people, but with a little fascination about like, what goes on here. So two of the more recent shows I’ve done in the last three, four years, or, uh, I’ve done two different times photographed at ICP, which is not the international center of photography. It is the international center of photography, but not in this context, not what we’re talking about. These Insane Clown Posse, there’s some fascination I have with that kind of insanity, that craziness, that it’s really, I, I can’t explain it, but I will say it’s a lot of fun to photograph if you stay out of the way of the Faygo and stuff. But yeah, I don’t wanna talk about why I’m into it. I don’t know why I’m into it. <laugh>
Anne Kelly (00:48:27):
Well, they have, I, I don’t know that much about them, but they have those Juggalo conventions.
David Scheinbaum (00:48:33):
I’ve heard. It’s a whole thing. It’s, it’s, it’s the whole thing.
Anne Kelly (00:48:37):
I remember first hearing about them 94 95 and, and it kind of seemed like
David Scheinbaum (00:48:42):
That’s what I’m saying. I, I knew of them and I, and I know there’s a big, there’s a big crowd in Albuquerque mm-hmm, but I didn’t for photograph them for the first time until like last year. Like I never, I would never go to their shows. I, and then I went and then I went to actually, I went to a second time. So,
Anne Kelly (00:49:00):
So you were just curious the first time I was
David Scheinbaum (00:49:02):
Curious the first time and the first time my, my equipment got so wet from, from, you know, they shoot soda, it’s Faygo, it’s it’s right. It’s this really sugary and it’s really not good for your camera, for your equipment. <laugh> I would imagine not. So the first time I was spending more time running away from this running, like running away from the pictures, but by this, the reason I went back to second time, cause I understood what’s gonna happen. So I knew where to stand and I know I could photograph. So the first time I didn’t get a lot of pictures. So second time I did.
Anne Kelly (00:49:41):
That’s great. Yeah. So in 2020 you started a new, well, you’ve started kind of two new, <affirmative> what we would call quarantine projects. One of the projects is on your website. The other one is not as of yet, and this is camera less work.
David Scheinbaum (00:50:06):
It’s, it’s everything less. So, you know, I’ve been working what I would call seriously. Now it’s over 50 years. So it’s a long time. And um, about 10 years ago, maybe longer kind of had in my head that someday I would like to produce a body of work, the simplest way possible. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I like to be able to shed my stuff. If you look at the abstract expressionist artists and you look at their early work, some people are surprised how incredibly well crafted it is, like how, oh, they could draw beautifully and how great, you know, and, and how good there is their skills. And then they went from that to this, you know? And what is that about, you know, when do you start to, to drop your tools and to take all of your knowledge that you’ve accumulated over your life’s endeavor and try to get to just the essence of your medium or what you’re doing.
David Scheinbaum (00:51:11):
And I think this might explain minimalism, you know, it might explain Donald’s Jud. It might explain Jackson Pollock, and, you know, I don’t know, but when you get to a place where you say, you know, I’ve done what I’ve done and, but, you know, if you wanna keep growing and you wanna keep pushing yourself, what does that mean? It, and it doesn’t mean for me anyway, it doesn’t mean doing more of the same and just changing a location isn’t enough at this point in my life. So, you know, I could say, okay, I did a book, a in Miami, and now I’m working in India. And then I did a book, you know, on Easter Island going to a new place, isn’t enough, cuz I’m still in a way I’m doing the same thing. And that accounts from my reprtior slash documentary ish work.
David Scheinbaum (00:52:06):
And that also accounts from my landscape work and my large format work. And, and it’s not enough just to go to a place I’ve never been it, it doesn’t do it for me. So this, this imaginary place in my work is something that’s been nagging me, I’ll say 20 years, years that I, I wanna get to this place. And it doesn’t mean like I wanna give up my photography as I know it. So I’ve always kind of been working toward this imaginary place of working in the simplest way. And it started when I did this earlier work and I think it’s on my website. It’s you could leave this one up there for a minute, but it’s, it’s called KLOS. And I started working with the, my eight by 10 camera. Again, this happened about five or six years ago, but instead of loading film into the holds, I was loading paper. So I started shooting paper negative. So I started making unique one of, of a kind images. And that was incredibly satisfying. And you know, so I’m shooting on paper, I’m developing. And I have, you know, my original intent was actually to make paper negatives and then make paper positives mm-hmm <affirmative> but the paper ,the negatives were so much more beautiful to me as objects then negatives were glorious as negatives are.
Anne Kelly (00:53:35):
And so for this work, just on a technical level, for those that might not understand you are just going back to the essence of photography, which is light and, and the paper
David Scheinbaum (00:53:50):
And chemistry and chemistry, light and chemistry. So this work and that’s all it is, but I’m doing here, mm-hmm <affirmative> and I’m doing these enso’s about a dozen different ways, you know, and simply you’ll notice some of them are, are black on white and some of them are white on black. So simply it’s not because it’s a secret process. It’s just cause it’s, it’s hard to explain, especially if someone’s not familiar with the dark room, I’m painting with chemicals. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I’m, I’m exposing photographic paper and I’m using brushes and I’m using developer in various formulas and various dilution. And I’m painting on, on photographic paper. And then I’m processing the paper. Some cases I’m painting with fixer in both things. I don’t see what I’m doing until the paper is done in, in essence, until it’s developed, so I’m, I’m doing this in the dark room, I’m, I’m doing it in my mind.
David Scheinbaum (00:54:59):
The Enso is a very, very powerful form. You know, it’s not only representative of, of the continuum of life and death, but it’s also, you know, very much about the relationships of positive and negative, which are very photographic in nature. It’s very much about balance. It’s very much about this yin yang that we all many of us talk about, but what the enso itself, the process of doing an enso, which is traditionally done in a single stroke and in a single breath, it’s also a visualization of your state of being at the moment you’re making it. So each one in itself, I don’t wanna get too metaphysical about this, but each one of these is, is, is a mirror. It’s a reflection of my state of mind, my state of being at the moment that I’m making them. And this started on March 12th last year, it started when this quarantine started, as I said earlier, I make one, four or five times a week, uh, working on enso’s and they’ve evolved to doing them many different ways.
David Scheinbaum (00:56:19):
And the more I learn about Japanese calligraphy, Sumi painting, mm-hmm <affirmative> the more I learn about brushes. It is what it is. But for me personally, it’s, it’s actually been arriving at a place I’ve been working toward being for many, for the last many years of my work to get to a place where I could make photographs in, in this way. I mean, all I’m using is a brush and I’m just doing this and, and I’m processing the print. I’m working. There could not be a more simple way to make a photograph. There, there is very pleasing for me to have arrived this place. I don’t know exactly where it’s going, but, and they keep changing. They keep getting different. Sometimes they like this one is kind of a burst of energy and some of them are, are just, just a total simple black line. So,
Anne Kelly (00:57:20):
Well, I love these, I, I love all of your work. Thank you one of the reasons I, well, among one of many reasons I wanted to talk to you today, but I mean really what a perfect quarantine project, something I’ve been giving a lot of thought to you recently is just the importance of creativity. And I, I personally feel like it’s, that, that has really helped me maintain a, a more positive attitude through these crazy times. And I’ve watched a lot of other artists do the same thing. So you, you could be sitting around being frustrated, but you can’t go to shows that you can’t go to India, that you can’t do X, Y, and Z. So I, I just love the idea that you’re hanging out in the dark room with this new exploration.
David Scheinbaum (00:58:10):
Well, it’s certainly a lot of people around me, kind of, they make fun of me, cause I’m so happy. <laugh> it’s this has not only gotten is getting me through all this time. It’s um, it’s been joyous because of this work and this other project, which if we have time, I’ll talk about it in a minute. And I’ll tell you, when I was in graduate school, there was a, another student there. She was, she was an expert on linguistics and she was a psychologist on the mind. And we were talking about our thesis project and she, he was telling me, this was in the beginning when they were doing biofeedback and they would wire people up and see their biofeedback stuff. It’s a whole nother thing. But she once said to me, do you know where this notion of the crazy artists came from, that all artists are crazy.
David Scheinbaum (00:59:02):
And I said, well, artists are not crazy. Like where she goes, what happens? She said, when they put these biofeedback, you know, whatever that was called, you know, they hook up to your brain and they hook them to your heart and they hook them to your pulse. Like when they wire people up. What she told me at this time is that when, when we found, when people are involved in, in, in intense creativity, mm-hmm <affirmative> and when people are having psychotic breaks, the patterns are almost the same. <laugh> wow. And what she’s learned from this, as he said, what this tells us is that when people are going through hard times, emotionally, that that’s the best time to work. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because those patterns are so close. That it’s the best time. If you could take that anxious energy that you’re feeling mm-hmm <affirmative> and change it to create , creative energy, it’s easily transformed.
David Scheinbaum (01:00:06):
Now you gotta get your outta bed. You know, you gotta kick yourself, you gotta get to work. Which a lot of people like, it’s the last thing they wanna do when they’re, when they’re struggling, um, emotionally. But if you could put yourself in a creative situation and when you’re having this hard time, it is a very good time to work. And I, I have not been struggling. Of course I’m bummed out about what’s happening, but I will say that it’s been a wonderful time for me to be working on this project. And especially this reflective nature of the enso that it actually lets me see what’s inside. Like when I do, I’m surprised myself sometimes of what comes out and when I see what’s coming out, I know, oh, you know, crap, I better pay attention today. <laugh> or wow, I’m really nice today. You know, it it’s, it, it basically is. It’s telling me what’s going on. And it’s been a wonderful process for me to have in my life during, during this time.
Anne Kelly (01:01:14):
That’s great. I love them visually. And just the whole
David Scheinbaum (01:01:18):
Story. Thank you. So, because, um, we I’ve been spending Janet and I and, and Andre who, our daughter who works with us at Scheinbaum and Russek mm-hmm <affirmative> her daughter. My, our granddaughter Olive is with us a lot that, that our pod is basically Andre and her wife, Carrie and Olive and Janet and I. So we are together a lot. So Olive is here many days. So for, for first month or so, when I started this work, you know, she watched me, you know, after lunch, I’m going in the dark room, you know, she calls me Boba. So Boba is going in the dark room and, and I think it know it took about a week or so where she asked if she could come, cause we’d have lunch and I’d say, okay, and I’m gonna dark room and I’ll be out in two hours, you know, whatever.
David Scheinbaum (01:02:10):
And then we could play, but she started asking to come and she watched and it, it was crazy. Cause even after that first time she, she had she’s four years old. She knew the, she knew the developer stop a fixer. She knew the thing I put the paper on is called the easel. She knew she, she knew the button to hit on my, she just watched me and she, she said, oh, that’s the developer. Right? She like, she just totally absorbed it all. So of course it’s a little like the hip hop stuff, you know, one thing leads to another. And as I said, all my projects come from my life. So she then asked if she could make pictures too. And so I said, what do you wanna do? So she wanted to stop bringing some of her play things into the dark room.
David Scheinbaum (01:03:06):
Now I’m, I’m not making photograms in a traditional way because I am brushing chemistry. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so she’s actually typically when you make a photogram, you know, you put the object on the paper and you expose it and you develop it. So since also, probably since the end of March, she comes with me in the dark room most days for the first 20 minutes or so. So we’ve been working on a project that I, I wanna turn into kind of like a little book. So this is just one volume of, so what we’ve started doing now, I’ll show you. So these are called Olive’s Olive’s photos and watch out world Olive is coming. So it started, you know, with her bringing her dinosaurs in. And now what we we’ve been doing at the she’s been, when she comes out of the dark room, she’s been sitting with Janet and she’s been telling Janet Little stories about each one, like what they are, what their name, this is a stegosarurs
David Scheinbaum (01:04:12):
He likes to run all over his home. He likes to jump in puddles when it rains. So she’s been telling Janet these stories at about each one. She tells her their names and we probably have about 50 of these already. And they’re, they’re amazing. I put down the paper, she places the objects where she wants them. She tell I’ve been doing most of the touching of the chemicals, but she tells me where to brush mm-hmm <affirmative>. She says, oh, brush there. And she’ll direct me. And then she’ll tell me when it’s ready. Like, so basically when I have to put it in the stop bath, because as we brush on the developer, you know, I could get different densities of tone. Some of them, she likes to have lighter. Some of them, she likes to have darker. Some of them are let’s see, some of them have got more complicated. I don’t know. Sometimes they they’re getting a little, uh, designy, the latest ones we’ve been working with crystals and, and prisms. And we’ve done a few with our, with our hands. So they’re basically, um, it’s feathers. So they’re getting more and more visually they’re getting more and more complex. This is just one volume. We have another volume. Wow. But as soon as we are done with all the stories, I think we’ll do like a little blurb book or something just for the, for the family. But that’s been
Anne Kelly (01:05:57):
Amazingly rewarding. And I have to say, you, you know, all my students have become incredibly knowledgeable and I’m very proud of all of them <laugh> but she’s, she’s the amount of information that she has retains. Oh. And knows, like she knows what all the chemicals are. She knows what they do. She knows about the light sensitivity of silver. She knows what, how fixer removes the unexposed silver particles. She, she just totally understands this process. And so it’s thrilling. It’s really a lot of fun. That’s really exciting.
David Scheinbaum (01:06:37):
And she takes a lot of ownership over the work as her work, which I I’m, I’m thrilled about. So <laugh>, that’s been my other, my other quarantine project. Well, and it you’re the first one I’ve shown it to so that, well, thank you though. That’s a scoop for you. I
Anne Kelly (01:06:55):
Mean, she’s just around a wealth of photography knowledge every day and, and she
David Scheinbaum (01:07:01):
Kinda is, you know, <laugh>, I mean, she, I mean, all our kids grew up in our gallery. I mean, our older kids they have stories about, they feel, I think that they grew up on the sides of roads. They’ve spent more time Jan and I would be driving like the ghost ranch when we were working on the ghost ranch book, you know, we would like stop the car. We’d run out with our cam Janet shoots four by five. I was shooting eight by ten. So, you know, we were out for a long time and the two Jonathan and, and would end up sitting in the car <laugh> so like, they have all their stories about all the time. They had to sit in the car and wait for us to be done. So they have sight the road stories, Zach kind of grew up, you know, his, his crib was in our gallery. Like he grew up in our gallery. That’s where his, his play pen was. And he, you know, Beaumont, Elliot, these were like his grandparent, you know, Zach grew up in it. Olive is growing up like as functioning working partner in all this she’s she helps us with everything. It’s really awesome.
Anne Kelly (01:08:07):
That’s great. So yeah. Have her on the, on the payroll in no time. <laugh>
David Scheinbaum (01:08:14):
Oh, no. <laugh>
Anne Kelly (01:08:16):
I won’t tell her. Yeah. Um, <laugh> well, this has been great, David, before I let you go back in the nineties, you had an amazing collection of Chuck Taylor shoes. I remember you having a different,
David Scheinbaum (01:08:32):
It’s so funny. You’re bringing this up
Anne Kelly (01:08:34):
Almost every day. I haven’t seen you wear them in a long time, but do you still, I guess kind of where this is coming from is I’ve, I’ve been really interested in what various creative people collect and that’s just something I know that you at least at one point collected. Yeah.
David Scheinbaum (01:08:52):
<laugh> well, okay. So yes, I, I have a over 30 pair <laugh> I have every color up until, I don’t know I was still wearing them when you graduated. Right. So when did you graduate? When did you graduate?
Anne Kelly (01:09:10):
I think 2001.
David Scheinbaum (01:09:12):
Okay. So I’m gonna have to say in the early two thousands, mm-hmm <affirmative> 2020, cause it’s been about 10. Okay. I’m gonna say by like 2006 or seven mm-hmm <affirmative> my feet started killing me and I wore converse every day of my life. Really? Literally. Yeah. You know, I have a few pair of boots, you and I’d wear boots, but since I’m in high school, I wore converse every day mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I started having, like, my feet were killing me. I, I went to this one friend, who’s an orthopedic guy. And I was said, you know, I don’t know what’s going on. He, and he said, it’s from those sneakers, from those sneakers, he goes, those are the worst things for your feet. And he gave me this whole thing about, you know, you better get running shoes with a big arch and, and, and, and sure enough, he was right.
David Scheinbaum (01:10:09):
Cause I went out, I bought a pair of asics and after like a week I was fine. And so <affirmative>, I still have all my converse and I have a, a whole closet filled with them. I still have probably about six pairs, brand new, still in boxes that I’ve never even worn yet. <laugh> and occasionally I’ll wear a pair now, like for some, if I wanna wear a pair, like I’ll wear ’em for a day. Like I won’t wear ’em two days in a row, but I do wear ’em. But the reason it’s it’s kind of funny is because thank goodness. Um, the election turned out the way it did mm-hmm <affirmative> and Janet, and a few of her friends they’re part of this thing, you know, Kamala Harris wears converse. Oh she wears black converse. She’s really into converse. Hmm. So there’s a whole thing happening now around the nation is that people are buying black converse.
David Scheinbaum (01:11:12):
So last week we ordered a pair for Janet of black converse to support Kamala Harris and the new administration. And I know at least two of her friends who have also ordered them. And I think I hadn’t been on a converse website in since the mid 2000’s. It’s amazing what you’re making now. Like I wish I could wear ’em just so many cool. I would buy another 30 pairs in a second. So I was just looking at the website for the first time ever. Janet’s probably gonna have a pair tomorrow and um, I’m gonna get jealous and I I’m thinking I might have to start wearing them once or twice a week again. Yeah. Because I miss them so much, but I haven’t thought about converse till this election. Cause that’s funny. I don’t know if you’ve noticed it, but everyone’s been talking about Kamala Harris’ converse somehow. So it is, but I still have em and Janet wants me and I’ll put this out there. Janet wants me to donate them to some organization, to raffle, to of converse of different colors. Um, so maybe one day I’ll do something. Cause I still have a whole closet filled with converse. So,
Anne Kelly (01:12:27):
Well you do know in the world of collecting, sometimes we, when it comes to art, sometimes we, we have to collect art that we don’t have a spot for on the wall. And, and maybe when it comes to even shoes, we need to collect them even when we’re not wearing them all the time. Who
David Scheinbaum (01:12:47):
Knows? You better not tell me that. <laugh>
Anne Kelly (01:12:51):
Okay. I did. I didn’t say that, but that, that was one of my, uh, fond memories in first showing up the school at the school saying, huh? And he’s got, he’s got great shoes too. Huh? So <laugh> I had to ask about that. Well, I’m glad you
David Scheinbaum (01:13:07):
Did. Yes, but so it brings us full circle. So
Anne Kelly (01:13:10):
Exactly. Well, it’s been super fun, David really appreciate, and really appreciate anybody who is listening. If you’ve enjoyed this conversation, this is still a new channel. Please like comment, subscribe, tell your friends, keep the conversation going,
David Scheinbaum (01:13:28):
Been a pleasure. Talking with you. Been nice to talk with. ’em really proud of everything you’re doing.
Anne Kelly (01:13:34):
Oh well thank you, David. You’re welcome, I’ve kept the love of photography and going and in this show, we’re exploring all different types of art forms. So this is keep it up. Something I might not have probably started if it wasn’t for the, the pandemic, but it’s, it’s been keeping me motivated and excited and I’m, it’s kind of my intention to, um, share that with everybody else as well. So keep it up. Good. Thanks David. Well, enjoy the rest of your day. You too. And uh, hopefully I’ll see you sooner than later. Hope so. Take care. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.
