Daniel Goncalves (00:03:46):

Kind of stuff were shooting? What were you into

Anne Kelly  (00:03:49):

At the time? I was mostly photographing my friends. It’s, it’s kind of a funny thing. And granted, we didn’t have cell phone cameras in that day and age, but I have very, very few snap shotty photos from high school because most of the photos I took were with a 35 millimeter film camera. So I’ve got lots of pictures from high school. They’re just not the type, but that most people have. I had, um, a number of, of friends that I kind of started photographing regularly. My mom and I took this landscape photography class together and it was a, a field experience class. So it was about a week long car camping. Oh, cool trip. And it was wild. It was really wild. And I, I definitely remember coming back for that and, um, thinking photography’s really cool. So where

Daniel Goncalves (00:04:47):

Did you guys go on your road trip?

Anne Kelly  (00:04:49):

Oh, I don’t even remember. It was, um, so I was living in Denver at the time. I know we drove through silver city. We were on all these back roads. The, um, kind of a funny story. The teacher that was teaching the class, I guess, had not really looked at, he’d been on this trail before, but he hadn’t been recently. And there was a lot of snow and the roads were in way worse condition than he was aware of. And I think there was about eight or nine people in his class and it, it was all women and they were all driving their own vehicles. And at one point we all had to cross a river and none of these women really into this idea. So he had to drive all of the vehicles through the river. And I couldn’t tell you where that was, but we were up at the con continental divide at one point. And even though it was car camping, you know, some of it was, we were pretty far out there and I still remember driving through that river or when he drove my mom’s car through the river and just this, this ocean wave of, of, of water just going over the, the windshield. And I

Daniel Goncalves (00:06:11):

Don’t know, there was just, wow, this is like a full on

Anne Kelly  (00:06:13):

River yes. Yeah. Um, I’m sure he was a little stressed out, but so he

Daniel Goncalves (00:06:20):

Would drive over the river. How would he get back? Would he like swim through it or like, like it obviously not drive through it back and forth. So

Anne Kelly  (00:06:30):

, I guess it wasn’t that deep of a river. I mean, theres river then there’s rivers, I think like intermittent intermit in stream bed style river, where he could kinda walk through it, but

Daniel Goncalves (00:06:43):

He still got pretty wet though.

Anne Kelly  (00:06:45):

Yeah. I don’t remember that part. I’m

Daniel Goncalves (00:06:47):

Sure he does if you ask him

Anne Kelly  (00:06:50):

But I definitely remember coming back from that class. And, and I think that that might have, I don’t know that I’ve been my junior you’re in high school pretty early on. So I mean, that, that was just, that was exciting and inspiring. And I just thought, Hmm.

Daniel Goncalves (00:07:06):

Do you have like a memorable picture from that trip that like kind of stuck with you? Something that you’re kind of like, that kind of just represents that in your, on your mind? Or was it just more like the experience?

Anne Kelly  (00:07:19):

I think the experience as a whole, I, I do have some pictures somewhere that I took at the continental divide and it was during the summer and there was still a lot of snow up there. I don’t even know why that actual picture kind of comes to my mind or, or where it is. But really what I should have been doing was, was photographing the, the teacher driving through the river. That

Daniel Goncalves (00:07:42):

Anne Kelly  (00:07:44):

That’s that’s yeah, that was memorable.

Daniel Goncalves (00:07:48):

Well, you took a picture it’s just up here. Not on paper somewhere. Yeah,

Anne Kelly  (00:07:53):

Exactly. So maybe one day I’ll make that picture. I’ve just gotta,

Daniel Goncalves (00:07:58):

He’s gotta find them again and take nine cars. Yeah. I’d be like, when I go through it, recreate. I hope you forgot,

Anne Kelly  (00:08:05):

But I’ve always been, I’ve been told by a lot of photographers. If there’s a picture you meant to take and you didn’t take it or it didn’t turn out the way you wanted, you’ll eventually take it or make that picture just maybe not in the way you had originally imagined it.

Daniel Goncalves (00:08:23):

So, Hmm. Yeah. That’s true. And some pictures, I guess, I don’t know. We, we all regret that where it’ll be like, I wish I’d taken this picture of that picture sometimes just kind of like one that you take for yourself in your mind and it gets to kind of be whatever you wanted it to be. Mm-hmm, you know, like I caught of fish. That was this big it’s like, when it’s in your mind, it could be like that big, you know? Right, right. Just changes. I

Anne Kelly  (00:08:43):

Mean, yeah. Like you’re asking how this guy’s getting back and forth yeah. Across the river,

Daniel Goncalves (00:08:49):

He was, he was catapulting. Right. He’s going like, yeah, for sure. Alting it

Anne Kelly  (00:08:53):

You’re adrenaline. He had no choice. He was

Daniel Goncalves (00:08:55):

Responsible. He’s like, we’re never gonna get outta here. OK.

Anne Kelly  (00:08:59):

Daniel Goncalves (00:09:01):

That’s, that’s wonderful to hear that your mom was so, so, uh, supportive and stuff. How was your dad with all that? Was he pretty supportive about going to college and studying arts and all that?

Anne Kelly  (00:09:09):

My whole family’s been very supportive of all of that. I feel really lucky about that. Cause I definitly went to high school with a lot of kids who were really talented in the arts and art school was not something that their parents were gonna permit to happen, but I honestly don’t know what else I would’ve done. There wasn’t really anything else I cared about in high school, enough to want to pursue it in college. That said, when I got to cal college, I did a liberal arts degree and kind of choosing to be in school versus when you’re in high school and you have to be in school. I learned about lots of things in Western civilization and different classes that I could see at that point. Oh, I, that would’ve been a really cool thing to, to study, but I think it’s the difference of wanting to be there choosing to be there versus you have to be there. So

Daniel Goncalves (00:10:09):

You went with, with, was it like a degree in arts and photography or was it like just kind of general liberal arts degree?

Anne Kelly  (00:10:16):

It was a BFA in photography and at the time the college of Santa Fe, which unfortunately no longer exists, they offered either a BA in photography or a BFA. And what the BFA required was that you took a beginning studio arts class in all mediums. I, and then you also had a senior thesis show prior to, to graduating.

Daniel Goncalves (00:10:43):

And you’ve also done some different artwork that you’ve shared with me and painting on wood and, um, some mixed media stuff. So spark, probably one of those classes I would assume,

Anne Kelly  (00:10:53):

You know, actually before I even ever started making the, I, I started drawing at a pretty young age and believe it or not, I, I started and I don’t really do this anymore, but I started writing poetry before I could actually write more, more specifically. I would, I would come up with poems and my dad would write them down for warn me. I happened to have an uncle who Dave Garrison, who is, is a poet and was a professor for quite some time. He’s, he’s published a number of folks. And, um, I think when I was three or four, he had one of my poems published in wow, poetry book,

Daniel Goncalves (00:11:41):

Kinda the bar high at such a young age. It’s kinda hard to talk at. You’re like, oh God, where do I go from here?

Anne Kelly  (00:11:49):

Well, I talk about my dad being yeah. Supportive of, of, uh, you know, know, even though he wasn’t an artist and I don’t even know how I got started writing the poems. I mean that, but he recorded them.

Daniel Goncalves (00:12:01):

So you did all this cool stuff. You graduated college, you did your thesis show. And then what were you gonna do after that? Were you just kind of like, what do I do or,

Anne Kelly  (00:12:13):

Well, I mean, that was kind of the good part about being young was I, I wasn’t too hung up on, on what I was gonna do. The, the idea was to keep making art, of course, but I went from having my own private senior thesis, dark room to having no dark room. So for a number of years, I just worked on my own art and I, I bartended for a while and, and waited tables. I put on a number of independent art shows around Santa Fe and, and most of them included my own artwork. There was an art show that I put on in a coffee shop in downtown Santa Fe. And I don’t even remember how that came to be if I just asked the coffee shop, if I could do that. And then I had another friend who was putting on exhibitions in his home, he called it the Otta showroom.

Anne Kelly  (00:13:16):

So he had an exhibition of my work there. We made, we even made t-shirts. Some of my friends still have this t-shirt. And then there was a larger show that I put on that was in a, a warehouse that I rented for 48 hours, I think. And there was about 10 artists that show and, and live music and DJs. And, you know, it was more of a, I guess, more of an art party type of thing. But my friend, Nicole, who now works for the Dallas theater center and she did all the lighting. So it was, it was pretty professional in, in terms of just kind of pop up art party shows. So I, I think there’s just certain things that ,

Daniel Goncalves (00:14:03):

So you’re like publishing at like when you’re this tall, right. You’re publishing in university presses your poetry and then you’re like, I don’t know any idea, the photography go to school, like you graduate. I don’t know of do, but you started curating. So obviously it seems like you kind of like figure things out before, you know, you figure them out in some way, cuz you obviously had a knack for that and you started kind of gravitating towards that. It seems.

Anne Kelly  (00:14:26):

Yeah. I think I kind of just can’t help, but do those things and actually taking it back even a little bit further when I was in elementary school, I, I would put on talent shows for the neighborhood. So I would be the organizer that, you know, I would, okay, we’re having this talent show and I would set it up and, and also had a lot of haunted houses and carnivals. So I, I was just always the kid that was organizing these things and, and why I have no idea, but

Daniel Goncalves (00:15:00):

That’s kinda awesome actually.

Anne Kelly  (00:15:02):

Yeah. Over the years I’m like, okay, I guess that’s just what I do.

Daniel Goncalves (00:15:06):

So you’re like the art director for the neighborhood talent shows. I mean yeah. You figured it out. It was a Sydney.

Anne Kelly  (00:15:13):

Yeah. I remember one of the carnivals we had, like the, um, I don’t know, there was a prize and you could win fish and you know, there was all these carnival rides that yeah, there, I don’t know

Daniel Goncalves (00:15:25):

Why like a, like a can char or like a goldfish goldfish.

Anne Kelly  (00:15:28):

Yeah. We had goldfish and my brother he’s three years younger than I am. So most of the guests, the carnival were my brother and his friends, but we had like, I remember, I don’t know why I remember this. There was a gate ride where the kid, the younger kid would go on the gate and my friends and I would like push the gate back and forth and we’d charge two pennies or something like that. And I don’t remember how you won the fish, but there, there was a fish prize. So

Daniel Goncalves (00:15:58):

maybe it was kinda like those bull riding things like at the, at the bars, like if you stay on the gate, you like win the goldfish. If you fall off, gotta pay up you 2 cents. Again, I don’t think we were

Anne Kelly  (00:16:07):

Trying to knock them off.

Daniel Goncalves (00:16:12):

Not that I liability reasons. So you were, you’re mindful of liability

Anne Kelly  (00:16:17):

Possibly so

Daniel Goncalves (00:16:20):

Okay. So you went from carnival organizer to all this stuff and then you ended up in the gallery world. So you’re at photo I, and you’re curating and, and representing photographic artists. And you’ve obviously got an entrepreneur spirit making two off of the, the gate ride. Yeah. And, um, so do you think that you would ever have the desire or want, or, or in the future to open up your own gallery? Is that something you think you’d be interested in?

Anne Kelly  (00:16:47):

So I’ve been with photo I for going on 15 years. Wow. I love photo eye. So, and, and I love our artists at this point. I am, I’m quite happy there. Yeah. It has so much history to it. It’s, it’s really kind of an institution

Daniel Goncalves (00:17:07):

Beyond Santa Fe. I mean it’s world worldwide. I mean, it’s fantastic to reach and you also get to go to portfolio reviews and represent the gallery. And how’s that experience for you?

Anne Kelly  (00:17:16):

I, I’ve definitely enjoyed going to portfolio reviews and I’ve met so many good friends, the San Francisco photo Alliance. They’ve been putting on a portfolio review at the San Francisco art Institute for, I think about 13 or 14 years now. And I have been to all of them except for the one. So that one has kind of a special place for me. Linda Connor started the photo Alliance. I mean, she’s been teaching at the San Francisco art Institute for more than 40 years now. And, and she started the photo Alliance and they do a lot of great programming throughout the year. So the, the bay area has become kind of a special place for me for that reason. So

Daniel Goncalves (00:18:03):

Portfolio reviews, there’s always kind of like these unwritten rules of like things that you should and shouldn’t, , mm-hmm so anything memorable of like something that someone did that surprised you in a good way and then something that would surprise you or has surprised you in a bad way, not mentioning any names of course, but, um, just curious, of course, do you have any interesting stories of that? And please don’t say it to me on the back

Anne Kelly  (00:18:26):

Day for those who don’t know portfolio or reviews, they happen all around the country, lots of institutions put them on. And typically at a portfolio review as a photographer, you can sign up and you get X number of one-on-one 20 minute sessions with different industry professionals. So within the weekend you might sit down with a, a gallerist museum curator, a book publisher, kind of the full gamut. So it’s super valuable magazine

Daniel Goncalves (00:18:55):

Editor. Yeah,

Anne Kelly  (00:18:57):

Yeah. Magazine editor. And within a weekend, as a reviewer, I’m probably sitting down with 30 different people for, for 20 minute sessions. So it can be kind of intense earlier on. There was, I felt like a lot more pressure from certain people. And, and I don’t know if it’s just the way that I have started reviewing portfolios or kind of how they’ve educated photographers on how they should do the reviews. But there was a number I remember from the first review I ever did where I just felt kind of cornered like people where you would just sit down with them and there was kind of this, what are you gonna do for me? Type of mentality, which is just not a good idea. And the way I’ve explained it is it’s the opportunity to meet somebody and establish a relationship with them and, and show them a, your work.

Anne Kelly  (00:19:52):

And it, it has happened in my experience, but, but typically you’re not just gonna walk in, meet somebody and they’re gonna give you a solo show. So I’ve, I’ve met with enough photographers at those reviews that kind of had that, that energy to them where they’re like, this is my work and it’s done, and I’m not accepting any constructive criticism and kind of what are you gonna do for me? And that’s just not a good way to really meet anybody. I don’t think in any walk of life. And a lot of the photographers I’ve met at those reviews, that’s the beginning of the relationship. And maybe we stay in touch for a few of years and then, and, and they’re all kind of in my mental database of, of, of what people do. And then maybe I’m working on a show and I think, oh, Hey, Daniel, I’m working on this show. So, and so image would be perfect for that. This would be the story that surprised me. I had an opening coming up and I, and I met with this person and their work was just so perfect. And I think we included them in a three person show, maybe two months later, but it was just never know exactly what I was looking for. So you never know that’s

Daniel Goncalves (00:21:05):

A thing. Yeah. It’s it like, I don’t know. I guess like they refer to it like kind of like speed dating, same thing. You don’t know, like you might meet 20 people. How, how would you know who you’re gonna like connect with or what what’s gonna line up? I mean, a lot of it’s, like you said, it’s like kind of relationship building, I think with just, just in industry in general with, everything’s just kind of like, like you said, you might, I have that in your mental role decks, but it might not make sense for you or whatever, but you might have a colleague that’s like, Hey, I’m doing something on cars or landscape of a specific type or a specific process. And you’d be like, Hey Joe Smith or Sammy, whatever she’s working on this or that or whatever. And all that stuff kind of goes on in the background. I would imagine a lot

Anne Kelly  (00:21:48):

The time that definitely happens, most of us reviewers were all big enough photo geeks. That even when we’ve been reviewing portfolios all day, and maybe we’re having dinner after most of us continue to talk about it. So if you go to a portfolio review, be nice to your reviewer.

Daniel Goncalves (00:22:09):

Exactly. And not so nice. Doesn’t work.

Anne Kelly  (00:22:12):

Even if they’re not an obvious fit, you, you never know what happens behind the scenes.

Daniel Goncalves (00:22:18):

I dunno if you’ve heard this story and I can’t remember who it was exactly, but it’s one of our colleagues. Um, she was saying that she was doing reviews. She was reviewing and, uh, she was in the bathroom and somebody was trying to push work underneath the stall. Like, Hey, can you like look at this? Or, or no, maybe it was not true. I was, Hey, here’s my business card. Am I here’s like a postcard or something like underneath the stall where she was like doing her business and like,

Anne Kelly  (00:22:40):

Wow, you don’t wanna do that?

Daniel Goncalves (00:22:42):

No, that would probably be not. Yeah, don’t do it. Not a good idea. Huh?

Anne Kelly  (00:22:46):

No breaks are really valuable. Like, so sometimes people would say, will you look at my work during your break? And a lot of times I would say no, just cause I didn’t think that was fair. So the other people that I had appointments with, because you really need that break. But there was one time where I, I went to the restroom during a break and I found this photographer crying in the bathroom based upon a review she had just had. And I ended up spending my entire break, trying to console this photographer in the bathroom. Cause I don’t know, I felt bad for her.

Daniel Goncalves (00:23:19):

Wait, is she the one that put the thing underneath the stall? I don’t

Anne Kelly  (00:23:23):

Know

Daniel Goncalves (00:23:31):

Because they don’t work. Yeah. This gonna be pretty stressful. I mean, I remember the first one I went to, I was just kind of like dry mouth and like super stressed and didn’t kinda know what I was doing. They have the portfolio reviews that are virtual these days. Have you done any of those?

Anne Kelly  (00:23:47):

I, I have, I’ve done two that experience. I have two, I’ve done two and I’ve got one coming up soon.

Daniel Goncalves (00:23:55):

San San Diego. Is it? Yes. Um, medium. Yes. Feel like for me the portfolio review like more important than anything. Even more than like showing the work in, in, in some aspects it’s kind of like just that face to face, kind of hanging out with people over like four days and getting to know people and mm-hmm, , it’s like you can’t assume that the one project you bring is gonna really appeal to people and that might not be, you know, the proposition, what you’re gonna do your whole career. Right. So it’s kind of like, for me, it’s like that four days of like hanging out. It’s like, if it’s a virtual review, you’re there for 20 minutes, it cuts off you. Like, you don’t even get, say goodbye probably or exchange things sometimes I don’t know how it works. Exactly. But, and it’s like, you don’t get that. I dunno. It just feels like it’s a different experience.

Anne Kelly  (00:24:38):

I would say in the two that I’ve done so far, it’s, it’s certainly not the same, but it’s better than no portfolio review. I think just, I mean, in terms of the actual reviewing of the work, I feel like that worked better than I expected it to. Of course you missed the actual getting, I love prints. So being able to see the actual tactile print and, and, and actually sit at the table with, with the person who made the print that is missing, but just the kind of overall the reviews I’ve done so far, they, they, they really did a good job and just, there’d be this giant zoom room. I don’t even know how you would put this together, but there would be a giant zoom room with all the attendees in the room. And I have a lot of respect for the people that have run these things because they’ve had to grab the two people that were supposed to meet up and put them in their own rooms.

Anne Kelly  (00:25:38):

And then, oh, wow. And then when the time was up, you know, like an actual portfolio review, they’d come in and ring a bell or something and say five. It, so some virtual person would come in and, and say five minutes, but then they would just be gone. So if you, you know, if you got down to the 30 seconds, whereas a regular review, depending on the review, some regular reviews are kind of like that too, where they, you know, swoop in and, and, you know, separate people when, when the time comes up. But it was definitely that way, but also just getting actually able to socialize with other people outside of the one-on-one reviews. So I guess the reviewing, I felt like that was more successful than I would expect. And then there’s certain things that are nice. Like you’re, you’re comfortable, you know, the coffee’s good cuz you’re in your own home. Um, but, but the, the social aspect is, is not quite there. And the ones I’ve done, they’ve kind of attempted that, where they have, like I said, all the participants in one giant zoom room, but I don’t know about you, but for me, if I’m in a zoom room with a hundred people, I feel weird about, about saying anything Hey, all pop

Daniel Goncalves (00:26:58):

Up. Yeah.

Anne Kelly  (00:26:59):

That’s something to say. So I, I guess I’m a little shyer in a zoom room with a hundred people or

Daniel Goncalves (00:27:06):

So that they’ll be

Anne Kelly  (00:27:06):

Awkward. Yeah. Have an actual conversation. So, but you know, what’s good about them just in terms of price point as a photographer. If anybody’s looking at doing these, the, the virtual reviews are a lot less expensive just in terms of the actual price point, but not traveling. So usually you have to light a Santa Fe and get a, a room for five nights and eat and all, all the other expenses of traveling. So for sure, I would say if anybody out there is thinking about doing a portfolio of you, I mean, online, I say, go for it really it’s um,

Daniel Goncalves (00:27:51):

It makes it definitely more accessible. I mean, it could be in another part of the world and not have to worry about spending a couple grand on a flight and whatever. And, and also like probably from an anxiety standpoint, it’s probably a little bit less stressful for everyone cuz you’re kind of like, you’re a home, like you said, you got your favorite, whatever coffee or slippers and kind of like in between, you don’t have to like sit there and like freak out and stress out and carry your big box. Right. You go to your own bathroom, you know, not have to worry about whatever people putting cards, oil, you lose the ability to put the cards underneath the

Anne Kelly  (00:28:26):

Stall. I think they’ve been successful enough that I think we’ll continue to see some of them even post pandemic. Just for some of the reasons I mentioned, like just the accessibility is have you

Daniel Goncalves (00:28:40):

Been making them the artwork yourself during this time? Cause I know you’re normally it’s just so busy with of work and, and at the gallery and now you got this new project as well with art and the raw,

Anne Kelly  (00:28:51):

I think, you know, when it, when it comes to my personal art making or just, it’s more just kind of anything creative. So for me, cooking is in that category. Gardening is in category. I make photographs all the time. I may not always show them to people, but the, the show really has been probably out outside of the work I do at the gallery has probably been the most kind of predominant creative project that I’ve been in, engaged in from deciding who I wanna invite to be on the show, to what I might wanna ask that person to editing the video. I didn’t know how to edit videos before that. So just figuring out all those details that

Daniel Goncalves (00:29:44):

Changes your mind on, in the creative way. Right. And you’re trying to put all these things together and a curating or mm-hmm, conceptual art, right? You’re kind of creating something, right. You move in all the pieces together and make it, making it work in a way that makes sense to you and with all the things that you’re doing that you have been doing and have done, if you weren’t doing what you were doing right now, what would you be doing?

Anne Kelly  (00:30:08):

Wow, you’re

Daniel Goncalves (00:30:09):

Right. Like, well skiing, I mean, uh, uh, snowboarding probably, but, but yeah, like what would you,

Anne Kelly  (00:30:15):

Oh, well, on, on the weekend I’m definitely still snowboarding, but, but if I wasn’t doing this, I don’t know. I might, I might be going crazy. Maybe

Daniel Goncalves (00:30:25):

If you didn’t have photography, is there something else that you’d be like, I could see myself doing that or that you’d be interested in? Know if they could kind of see yourself being as passionate about it or is this it well,

Anne Kelly  (00:30:36):

Photography is the main artist, visual arts media, um, that I’m into, it’s kind of my first love, but, but, but I love all of the other mediums as well. And recently I, I, I keep getting the feeling that I wanna paint something and, and for whatever reason, um, GU was really speaks to me. And I don’t know why, cause it looks incredibly complicated and maybe that’s why I wanna wanna try it. Are, are you familiar with that? That it’s, it’s kind that style of painting. I mean, it is just sounds wet. It looks ridiculously complicated. So I, I don’t know

Daniel Goncalves (00:31:23):

What, what is it you using paintbrush and, and stuff or,

Anne Kelly  (00:31:27):

Yeah, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s similar as I understand it to watercolor, but it has a, a little more opacity to it. So it’s almost kind of somewhere in between acrylic and water of color. I think I showed you some of my drawings that I’ve done on wood. Mm-hmm I tend to draw trees and, and I guess that’s kind of where it’s a little bit different with maybe a little bit with photography versus other mediums. When I, when I tend to draw and paint, I’m pretty comfortable just sitting down and, and just starting to sketch or, or draw something without thinking about what it’s actually gonna be. Whereas I guess photography, you’ve loaded your film or you have your camera and, and you’re kind of going out and planning to photograph something. Or maybe not, maybe you’re just walking the dog and you see something and you pull out your iPhone and, and make a picture. But trees, trees are always a common, there’s probably more trees in my artwork than, than anything else

Daniel Goncalves (00:32:38):

Now, where does that come from?

Anne Kelly  (00:32:40):

I, so, like I said, I grew up in Colorado. I, I moved to Denver when I was nine, but the first nine years of my life, I, I lived on top of a Ridge top in the mountains in Colorado. And so I’m pretty sure that’s what it was. As, as a kid, I was playing amongst the trees we’d camp in the backyard. We made forts and trees, even in, I remember moving to Denver and being in middle school. And, you know, you had to get on the bus really early in the morning. Did they do that to you in Canada, send you to school before the sun even came up? No. Why, why did they do that? But they did. But I remember being that stuck on school bus early in the morning and just observing the silhouettes of the trees as kind of the sun was rising. And just loving that for me. I, I think a lot of kind of early childhood memories kind of influence the type of art that I wanna create.

Daniel Goncalves (00:33:41):

And does that bring you, like when you were a kid looking at that, that give you kind of a feeling of mystery or a feeling of like comfort or what do you think it was that was kind of like drawing you to that?

Anne Kelly  (00:33:52):

I think it was just pure fascination. Didn’t know why was a kid? Didn’t have to think about it too hard just, yeah, but I, I still look at silhouette of trees and I just, I love it.

Daniel Goncalves (00:34:02):

So another thing that I understand that you’re in love with would be music mm-hmm would that be correct? And, um, I remember listening to a previous episode where your professor was at the same concert. It was like insane clown posse concert or something like, oh no. Is he gonna notice gonna get to class late tomorrow morning or something?

Anne Kelly  (00:34:23):

Yeah. Yeah, that, that was David shine, Baum. He photographed hip hop concerts for quite, quite some time. I I’ve never been to an insane clown posse concert. Um, but when I was in college, a lot of the hip hop shows, I went to an Albuquerque. He, he was at and up on stage photographing and it was fun to talk to him about that recently on art and the raw, because he didn’t know I was there. Um,

Daniel Goncalves (00:34:54):

Your student, your professor there you’re like crap. I

Anne Kelly  (00:34:57):

Was like, it was a public enemy show that I remember. Nice.

Daniel Goncalves (00:35:03):

And were your parents into music? I mean, is that something that kind of came on early on in life or just kinda that, that would be

Anne Kelly  (00:35:08):

My dad. That’s my dad. Yeah. He’s, he’s always been a musician in my mind, but he’s, he’s more been, um, like he’s never really been interested in playing shows or anything. Like it’s, it’s more just kind of jamming out in the basement when I was a kid or maybe you’d have a friend come over and, and play some music. Or we used to play music together a little bit when I was a kid, but music is not necessarily one of my talents or it could be, I just never to, to really get good at anything. You’ve really gotta put a lot of effort into it. He and my brother, I always thought were just really kind of naturally talented in the musical arts and I could didn’t do that. So I kind of went in other directions just in terms of owning music. Um, I don’t know if you saw the episode last week with my friend, Rob Danon.

Anne Kelly  (00:36:10):

Um, who’s also, he’s in LA and he’s in band and I was talking to Rob and I mean, this, I felt like the, it was such a dorky moment, but I was talking about cassette tapes. I had recorded when I was five years old or that I’d collected when I was five years old. And I was saying, oh yeah, I bought this cassette tape and that, and then I had this moment where I realized, wait a minute, I was, I was five. I, I didn’t have money. Like my dad bought those for me. So he, he was definitely my, my musical influence.

Daniel Goncalves (00:36:42):

So what was your first

Anne Kelly  (00:36:43):

Cassette? My first cassette tape was the soundtrack to the movie Labrinth. Oh, with, with David Bowie, your Bowie.

Daniel Goncalves (00:36:53):

Cool dad.

Anne Kelly  (00:36:55):

Very cool dad. And, and then I had, um, Tiffany and Taylor, Dan and, and George Michael. So yeah, I guess my, my dad was the musical influence and my mom was the, the visual arts influence on me.

Daniel Goncalves (00:37:13):

That’s awesome. And they both obviously influenced you in that way, so that’s pretty

Anne Kelly  (00:37:17):

Awesome. Yeah. So I love music. I’m interested in music, but I don’t, I don’t play music. When you

Daniel Goncalves (00:37:24):

Cook, are you following recipes or are you kind of like doing your own thing? Are you like kind of starting off with the recipe and kind of jumping off from there?

Anne Kelly  (00:37:32):

Usually I do not follow recipes with the exception of, I got one of those Insta Potts about a year ago. So I will, I will check recipes just in terms of cook time for that kind of thing. Cause I, I’m not gonna just try to make up how long you should pressure cook a whole chicken. that doesn’t uh, cause be a

Daniel Goncalves (00:37:58):

Surprise too. Talk tonight, talk tomorrow. Yeah.

Anne Kelly  (00:38:02):

Yeah. But in terms of seasoning and, and just inventing things, um, good question by the way I will, and I always add extra garlic. I always add extra garlic and um, yeah, maybe onion and definitely green chili.

Daniel Goncalves (00:38:18):

I was gonna say spicy mm-hmm like playing with spice. So what kinda heat do you do you use you’ll use the, the peppers, the, what are they called again? The new Mexican peppers that you, New Mexico

Anne Kelly  (00:38:31):

Chili is definitely definitely an addiction. I love all kinds of kinds of spices.

Daniel Goncalves (00:38:38):

Do you use anything else for heat or is that pretty much your main kind of source for heat when you’re cooking?

Anne Kelly  (00:38:43):

I, I love different hot sauces as well. I’ve got a little collection of those. I also have some dried chilies that I’ll de hide. Great. Sometimes I worked at this great Mexican restaurant early on, um, called MUO Gusto, still around in Santa Fe. It’s awesome. Little family owned and operated restaurant. They do things like they would make their own mole sauce from scratch. And if you know about mole, it can have, have any ingredients in it or something like that. So I would, I would watch the owner there, dehydrate all these chilies and, and make these wild sauces. So when it, when it comes to cooking, I like to, I like to take a lot of chances.

Daniel Goncalves (00:39:32):

I share that philosophy. I’m the same way. I’m that? Um, a recipe person sometimes I’ll be like, okay, I’m trying to make something. It’s like, what are kind of like the main things that would go into this? Cause it’s like, like today I was telling you we made some banana sauces. I’m like, I, I made this like a long time. Ago’s like it’s bananas. I think Ru maybe some sugar. I don’t know. Can you just check that real quick? Okay. We’re good. We don’t have sugar. We’ll throw in some money. We don’t have banana cur we’ll put in some Malibu that’ll work some butter. Okay, good. Yeah. The, the thing that I have to stop myself is when I’m cooking is that I’m like, I keep on like adding, like I, I like to have a lot of layers and stuff, so I’ll just kind of like, I’ll add this spice that some more humid, I’ll be like, maybe cur I put in some cur powder and this spice and that spice and it’s like getting perfect. You’re like, Ooh, this is like, it it’s jamming. And you kinda like, maybe just this other thing too, then you go and you’re like, it. it’s like you were there and you just kinda went over there and I’m like, oh man, just like totally ruined it. Yeah.

Anne Kelly  (00:40:34):

Well, and, and I think that’s like visual arts too. How do you know when you’re done thing, having that kinda in discipline or intuition or whatever it is to mm-hmm okay. stop. See what happens or, or do you keep going? And,

Daniel Goncalves (00:40:51):

And then another thing that I, I know that you’re kind of into is film. So I, I knowing that your last episode, you’re talking about horror film, is that like a, a genre that you really kind of gravitate towards, or I

Anne Kelly  (00:41:01):

Like a lot of different genres, but I’m, I’m definitely into scary movies. I, I feel like in, in watching movies, it’s kind of a nice balance between different types of movies, maybe what’s going on your, in your life. Also a big fan of, of, of comedy movies and gangster heisty movies as well. For, for whatever reason. I like them all,

Daniel Goncalves (00:41:27):

Not too much into the scary stuff. I don’t know why I’ve never really been into it. I guess it’s scary.

Anne Kelly  (00:41:33):

I love those types of movies. Yeah. Cause I love all of, all of the different genres. Like maybe you don’t like kind of gang street heisty movies, so you just don’t watch them. But I found people don’t have that kind of like, I don’t know, they don’t have that, that reaction when you say, oh, I’m really into horror movies. People kind of go, Ooh, like if they’re not into it, they’re really not into it. Versus maybe you don’t like the heist movie. You’re like, eh, I don’t really like that. So I, I don’t know why I’m, I’m drawn to that, that genre.

Daniel Goncalves (00:42:07):

My roommate in college is like, he still is, he still makes films, but he’s like true horror, like fanatic, like low budget, crazy of stuff. And I was like at some of his films and I think I just kinda like turned off at that point. I dunno. It just, it was pretty bad love the guy, but it was just like, yeah, I was pretty bad. I should say his stuff was pretty good. But

Anne Kelly  (00:42:26):

Um, like I’ll be, I’ll be to bed early tonight. Yeah.

Daniel Goncalves (00:42:31):

Think I got into trouble once my sister will watch, I think it was a Candyman or something or no, it was Friday at 13th. I can’t remember like when we were growing up and my sister was like freaked out by it, which I thought was great. But then she had to sleep with my parents for like a week and they got in so much trouble. So I’m like no more, more movies. So on the Friday night, what movies genre would you go for if you had like a choice like this weekend, what, what would you watch? Would you have anything in mind? I think it

Anne Kelly  (00:42:54):

Depends on the week that I’ve had. I think it’s kinda a good way to balance whatever else is going on.

Daniel Goncalves (00:43:02):

Kind of like music, right? I mean, yeah,

Anne Kelly  (00:43:04):

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes. Yeah. And sometimes I’m working and I’m just feeling kind of low energy and just changing the music is, is what needs to happen happen.

Daniel Goncalves (00:43:16):

It’s incredible. Isn’t

Anne Kelly  (00:43:17):

Yeah. I can work for another five hours. I just can’t you know what I was listening to before

Daniel Goncalves (00:43:24):

Some Tiffany, Tiffany, I say, yeah,

Anne Kelly  (00:43:29):

I gotta say I I’ve definitely not listened to Tiffany in a very long time, but Talia who was on a few episodes recently, you, you got to be in the, you were part of the, uh, social hour episode with her, but she was on an episode with Cory Williamson, which was when I learned that she went to a Tiffany, she actually went to a Tiffany concert. She told us that story. What was your first

Daniel Goncalves (00:43:54):

Concert that you went to?

Anne Kelly  (00:43:56):

You know, that I don’t actually remember. I’ve been to a lot of concerts of the, of the more memorable concerts, I guess I would say I got to, um, I went to an Aerosmith show when I was an early teenager and, and that was particularly memorable because we had lawn seats and some guy that worked for the venue offered us front row center seats and nice. I, and then we got backstage passes and we got to meet the band. And, uh, so, so that was memorable. And then I also got to go to the last tour that pink Floyd did in, in 1994. That was super amazing. Wow. Michael Koff. And I figured out on, I episode one of art and the raw that he also was at that tour, but, but in LA. Wow. And I think we figured out we both, we both still have our concert tickets and we both paid, I think the tickets were $24 or, or something like that, which is funny now, cuz now it would be probably

Daniel Goncalves (00:45:12):

Well zero out of zero.

Anne Kelly  (00:45:14):

Well, and, and pink Floyd’s not even touring anymore. So yeah, if they did, it would be yeah. Maybe add a few more zeros, but so, so many good shows over the years from just little hole in the wall, venues in Denver to, to big amphitheater is

Daniel Goncalves (00:45:32):

I feel like I almost enjoy those like kind of like you go to a place and there’s a live band and you, you’re not expecting it. And you’re like really into it. And you’re kind of like, that was like something I was not expecting. And you just get out there and act the fool and dance and just

Anne Kelly  (00:45:45):

Have a good time. Another show that I should note is I don’t, are you under reggae? I don’t. Yeah. Um, Potto Bonton.

Daniel Goncalves (00:45:55):

I’m not sure. I’d have to hear this one.

Anne Kelly  (00:45:57):

Uh, I I’m sending you a link to Potto Bonton later. Yes. So he, he’s a pretty well known contemporary reggae artist, but is not opposed to playing at little venues. So I’ve seen PA Bonton a few times and little bars in, in Santa Fe. I mean packed houses, but you know, he’s a guy who could pack an am theater, but just to see him in a little bar and then a thing he does is he’ll sometimes do these little prayer circles outside of the venue. later on. I mean, he’s just that musician where you could run up to him after the show and, and give him a hug and talk to him for a little while and, and he’s he’s into it. So some

Daniel Goncalves (00:46:43):

Other, he, he hasn’t lost, he hasn’t lost that essence. So he hasn’t figure out where he is, come from.

Anne Kelly  (00:46:47):

That’s awesome. And then, um, ozone Motley, do you know, do you know OZO Motley? I okay. I’m also great. Cuz you’ll love OZO Motley mm-hmm they they’re another band that could probably pack an amphitheater, but will play little venues and they have this tendency to, towards the end of the show, they have a lot of horns usually within the band and they’ll usually walk around and they’ll play free shows sometimes. And they’ll walk around in the crowd after the show, still playing. Oh, that’s awesome. And I got to see them in house and I think this was a free show or it was at least inexpensive show. They played with war.

Daniel Goncalves (00:47:31):

Wow. And the reggae, you have the band you’re talking about the ozone,

Anne Kelly  (00:47:35):

Describe them as kind of fusion, Latin kind of reggae, kind of hip hop. They, they played this whole short show with war and, and a number of the songs were collaborative. That was truly amazing.

Daniel Goncalves (00:47:50):

So artwork, you obviously you’re all over the place with, you know, painting and, and photography and you got like all these music, you know, you’re covering all these wonderful artists and obviously a lot of interest in all of it. If you had, what would be your desert item and piece that you could, if you, if money was no objective, what would you get that you can think of that you’ve been like kind of thinking about for a while or, or you hadn’t thought about it cuz there’s just so out of reach or maybe not, maybe it’s super afford, but you just haven’t gotten it.

Anne Kelly  (00:48:23):

There there’s too many, too many pieces, but yeah, I think, I think if money was no object mm-hmm , it would be one of man Ray’s photographs.

Daniel Goncalves (00:48:36):

Which one do you know? I

Anne Kelly  (00:48:39):

Dunno, I don’t have a particular one in mind. I think some of the, the kind of more surreal kind of data style. I mean he has a lot of different types photographs, but, but I would really, I would really love to have one of those, but I’ve come to realize in, in terms of artwork, I tend to gravitate art to artwork. That’s kind of a little bit surreal or in the magic realism genre, there’s maybe something, a little daunting within the image, something a little bit mysterious, but kind of from medium to medium, I’m I’m really into that since we’re making this up. Yeah. I would love to have a Dolly. That would be amazing. Mm-hmm um, the more, I me this show, I, I kinda wanna collect art by everybody that’s on the show, but I also have that challenge in working at the gallery, Don hung O do you know Don hung, hos photography?

Daniel Goncalves (00:49:45):

Are you familiar with it, but I’m not familiar with the

Anne Kelly  (00:49:47):

Name he’s um, so he’s one of my favorites and actually the first, I dunno, I guess I’d say serious piece of art I bought was one of his pieces. He works within the, the photo montage process, but within the dark room or he did anyways, he, he was a Chinese photographer that grew up in Vietnam and immigrated to San Francis ago in I think 1979 or so. And so he shot all eight by 10 negatives and he would make these com composite compositions from multiple eight by 10 negatives that were sandwiched together in the dark room. And so he’d make multiples of every piece, but there’d be little variations. And a lot of them were compositions from the river Lee and I, and I had the opportunity to see multiple prints of some of these images, but sometimes the boat would be going the, the other direction or he’d use a different negative of a tree.

Anne Kelly  (00:50:44):

And, and then he would also kind ain’t little extra details. That was really what inspired me for that to be my first piece is I, I saw this one that just really, really just spoke to me in terms of the toning, the composition. And, and I knew it was gonna be the only one like that. And I couldn’t even afford it at the time, but I just, I, I was able to make payment arrangements and I bought it and I, I love it so much since he passed away. And because he was printing from multiple glass plate negatives, there are not necessarily trust prints. You couldn’t just hire somebody to make the trust prints. And since then the woman who ran his trust, Ruth Silverman, she’s also passed away. And before that happened, she donated the, the last of his prints to the, I believe it’s the Santa Barbara art museum and the woman who ran Ruth’s trust got in touch with me.

Anne Kelly  (00:51:48):

And we sold off the last of our inventory. All the proceeds went to different nonprofits. Ruth was really into animals, specifically dogs. So I got to pick, I got to sell the last of his prints from our inventory and I got to pick a nonprofit to, for the proceeds to go to. That was amazing and kind of equally rewarding to see the last of Don Hung’s princes go to a good place, but I also love dogs. So to yeah, pick a local organization for those to go to, it’s kind of nice arc. It’s a nice arc to that, right? Like that’s pretty cool. wow. And I loved his work before I even worked at photo. I, I admired it from afar. And when I started there about 15 years ago, I think was when we first started consigning prints. And it was one of my first duties when I first started working, there was to pick some, I was the gallery assistant at the time. I’m now the gallery director. Um, I was supposed to pick prints to order for our inventory. That sounds fun. That was, that was definitely a special thing still is. Yeah. Like I get to order these and I get to live with them. Yeah. I, I don’t really see myself as just somebody that sells photography, but it’s more connecting collectors with pieces that they, they truly love. And sometimes by artists that they don’t know mm-hmm so for, for me, it’s, it’s that kind of rewarding thing of, of connecting the collector with the artist.

Daniel Goncalves (00:53:28):

That’s kinda like a special skill and artistic practice as well. Right. Just kinda trying to figure out that match. Right.

Anne Kelly  (00:53:36):

It definitely is. Cause sometimes it’s okay. You’re just telling a, a collector. Okay. This person has new art, but mm-hmm, , what I think sometimes people don’t think about is I go, okay, you like this? And that’s one thing I don’t love about Amazon. I feel like Amazon kind of like makes what I do less. I don’t know. It’s it’s different. Like Amazon through algorithms will be like, you ordered a fish tank filter yesterday. You want this other fish tank filter. So it’s yeah. Kinda what I do. But as a human, it’s more like, Hey Daniel, you own a Don OI print. I just met this photographer. Sally X. Pretty sure if you like the Don hung oil, you’re gonna like, Sally’s one and she’s an emerging artist and you should check this out. It’s about more than just selling art. It’s those connections between people. That’s, that’s what keeps me doing it really.

Daniel Goncalves (00:54:38):

It’s probably rewarding too. If you have someone who’s never collected before and they come in, then they’re just kind of checking stuff out and they get excited about something and they realize they can afford cuz photography is pretty accessible. Right. And it’s kind of like, who knows, maybe that person hangs out on their house. And then that becomes two or three different things and kind of get set ’em on a different path that they hadn’t expected because they walked into the gallery and met and on a Sunday or Saturday, whatever your, the hours are .

Anne Kelly  (00:55:05):

Yeah. And I love that. And there’s some people that think, oh, collecting is not accessible or, or they’re embarrassed to walk in and admit they don’t know about it or that they only have a certain budget. But I mean, that’s something I really love is if, if you, if you walked in and said, my budget is this amount of money and this is the type of thing I like, I love the, it help figure out what, what that’s gonna be. And not that all photographs are inexpensive, but for example, in terms of other photographers that I would maybe aspire to own their print, I, I would love to have a Jerry Uzman and that is way more realistic than, um, obtaining a Dolly painting, for example, or even, I mean, a lot of Ansel Adams prints are really expensive, but I’m, I’m, you know, getting an Ansel Adams is, is more likely than getting a Monet.

Daniel Goncalves (00:56:07):

And you think quirky that you fill, that would be interesting. That one wouldn’t normally think of. Cuz then that’s the question you regularly ask here.

Anne Kelly  (00:56:16):

That is, I would say most of the things I collect kind of relate to other hobbies. So for example, snowboarding, I, I guess I have a small collection of snowboards. Maybe I don’t need as many snowboards as I have, but they’re for different reasons. Yeah. And I also have a 55 fish tank, so I collect fish that are, that are in the fish tank.

Daniel Goncalves (00:56:49):

And was this because you had those carnival fish and nobody won them and you’ve just been kind of like taken care of all these years,

Anne Kelly  (00:56:55):

You know, the, the pet collecting thing, I think probably yeah. Okay. I’ve I’ve always, when I was a kid, I had a lot of pets. I had Guinea pigs. I had fish, I had frogs dogs. Uh, now I just have two dogs in the, in the 55 gallon fish tank. So I think the, the carnival fish were just a result of, of

Daniel Goncalves (00:57:27):

So how many fish are in your 55 in gallon swimming pool size fish tank?

Anne Kelly  (00:57:33):

I don’t know. At this point, that’s the weird thing with fish tanks. There’s this whole like, um, it’s, it’s more like how many inches of fish per gallon can you have in the tank and have the tank healthy? I guess I have 55 inches of fish. I forget what the roll is. but uh, I have a, a red shark and um, some, some LOEs yoyo LOEs they call them and, um, some tiger barbs. So it’s like, it’s a, mostly a bar, a Barlo and shark tank right now.

Daniel Goncalves (00:58:12):

I dunno what a Barb Loche is, but it sounds pretty badass, especially if you can live in the 55 gallon fish tank with the

Anne Kelly  (00:58:17):

Shark. I mean the shark. Yeah, sure.

Daniel Goncalves (00:58:21):

About that.

Anne Kelly  (00:58:21):

The sharks a shark though. And then, and then jewelry. I love jewelry. That’s something I’ve always loved. Um, wearing the,

Daniel Goncalves (00:58:29):

I was gonna say I’m appreciating your,

Anne Kelly  (00:58:31):

These, uh, were made by Danny Hart, Danny Hart design. He was on the show. He, he went to architecture school and also bake furniture and jewelry and, um, cool. He’s a really cool guy. Think you’ll enjoy that episode. Ever since I was a kid I’ve been, been collecting jewelry. Like when I babysat, I spent all my money at Claire’s boutique. And I don’t know if you had that in Canada, but it was like the, I

Daniel Goncalves (00:59:00):

Met the malls here. I’ve seen them

Anne Kelly  (00:59:01):

Before. Yeah. Yeah. So you, you can picture like eight year old me blowing my babying budget.

Daniel Goncalves (00:59:12):

You’re like, can I trade this Tiffany tape in for that thing? Yes.

Anne Kelly  (00:59:17):

Yes. Now, now it’s like Danny heart design handmade.

Daniel Goncalves (00:59:22):

Nice. Is it wood?

Anne Kelly  (00:59:24):

It is. Yeah. And wow. His, his jewelry’s really cool. When I bought these, I had the option of, um, picking between I think, four different types of wood. Cause the hand makes them per order. And then they always just have this little pop of color. So I got to pick the wood and then the color of them.

Daniel Goncalves (00:59:45):

So it just kind of like catches your eye every once in a while when it goes around.

Anne Kelly  (00:59:50):

Yeah. So I’ve got two pairs of his earrings now. And since I talked to him last week, I learned that he uses that Japanese technique where you burned wood to make it so that it is, um, well, so that it’s black, but also it’s waterproof at that point. You see that a lot in architecture. Hmm. And I’ve always been fascinated with that process. And he was like, oh yeah, all of my black jewelry, I use that. And he showed me a few pairs. I’m like, now from

Daniel Goncalves (01:00:23):

The, is coming in

Anne Kelly  (01:00:24):

The mail. I’ve I’ve already, well, I haven’t actually bought the third pair of earrings yet, but I haven’t in my mind, it’s it’s already happened.

Daniel Goncalves (01:00:32):

So one of the black ones I’m assuming

Anne Kelly  (01:00:35):

Yes. That, that I, yeah, just, I dunno, I love process. And just knowing that was part of the process. Yeah.

Daniel Goncalves (01:00:45):

It’s, it’s kinda something that, you know, it’s kind of like that picture that you bought right. Where you knew that there was like, sure, there’s an addition of 10 or whatever it was. But each one of ’em had these little variations. It’s almost like these little secrets that he knew about the person that bought it doesn’t know. And you knew and you get to have it and you kind of have this like little thing it little secret. Definitely. okay. So pandemics, raging still hope is on the horizon. What’s like the first place that you want to go to, that you can drive to. And then like, what’s the first place you wanna go to that you can fly to?

Anne Kelly  (01:01:16):

The, the flying to place is gonna be Japan. And specifically during the winter, because snowboarding is one of my passions and the snow they get in Japan is just epic. And then also have you, have you heard about this? They have the hot, the, the monkeys that get in the hot Springs there.

Daniel Goncalves (01:01:39):

Yes. I’ve seen the picture of them. They’re like, like, like in the hot tub and they’re like full snow or whatever, snow monkeys, whatever the

Anne Kelly  (01:01:45):

Club. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanna snowboard all day and then I wanna hang out in the hot Springs with the monkey.

Daniel Goncalves (01:01:51):

Wait, you can go into the hot Springs with the monkeys. I mean,

Anne Kelly  (01:01:54):

Unless the monkeys don’t like it, then ,

Daniel Goncalves (01:01:57):

They’re probably like, yeah, you gotta come to a hard time that if could,

Anne Kelly  (01:02:02):

Other than that, my families of Irish descent. So Ireland is a place I’ve always wanted to go to. It would be higher on the list if, if, if I didn’t wanna snowboard Japan so badly, but Ireland is definitely up there in terms of you asked about just somewhere I can drive, have you heard of truth or consequences, New Mexico that’s actually town really truth or consequences. Yes. And what it has in common with Japan is, is the hot Springs. There’s tons of hot Springs there. So it’s this little teeny, tiny town of, and, and that’s somewhere. I, I think I can probably realistically go to sooner than later mm-hmm so there’s public hot Springs. You can go to there, but there’s also little hotels that have hot Springs, but there’s a lot of little Airbnbs that have hot spring fed hot tubs in, in their backyard cuz you can just pipe into it. Right. So that that’s actually something I’ve been wanting to do. How long

Daniel Goncalves (01:03:16):

A drive is that couple hours or

Anne Kelly  (01:03:19):

I think just about two hours or so. So that’s, that’s doable, particularly having your own Airbnb with your private hot spring and yeah. All of that. That’s like the ideal pandemic getaway seems to me

Daniel Goncalves (01:03:37):

With your own hot spring. Yeah. That’ll kill off the, the germs. You get to go

Anne Kelly  (01:03:43):

So many great places to go, but soon in the meantime, maybe we all meet up in truth or consequences. Thank you, Daniel. I managed, I think to let you ask questions and I resisted the temptation to ask all of the questions that were in my mind, I guess it came in handy that we, we spoke a few weeks ago, but for, for those of you watching, thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate all of you and please like comment and subscribe. And I gotta say, you always hear people say that on YouTube. It’s like, it’s almost that thing you don’t even hear anymore because you just hear it so much, but it really does make a difference. Daniel spent time preparing for this show. I do that on a weekly basis and it, it, it helps to know that people are watching and, um, are interested to keep us doing this. She love, she

Daniel Goncalves (01:04:40):

Wants to see you comment down below, say some good

Anne Kelly  (01:04:42):

Stuff. And, and if any of you have questions for me, put the comments below or, or for Daniel or, or even from anybody else from past episodes, we will try to answer those questions. Thank you. Thank you Daniel. Thank you. Thank you. Episode 24, have a good night, everybody.